On 10-12-2013 20:14, MichaelJF wrote:
> I think, you will repair the broken trees soon. Never seen this issue before.

Oh, that is easy: stop render > change tree > restart render with +c  ;-)

> The TomTree palms are the best I agree. Arbaro is not intended for the
> foreground (50 m distance to the cam at least is stated within the docs). In
> some places the city wall looks a little bit "warped" now in comparison to your
> last wip. Or is this due to the added plantation?

Good to know about Arbaro, I had not read that. Still, it can make good 
trees but I am painfully struggling with it. Most probably because I do 
not always really know what I am doing :-)

>
> I wonder about this brown structure at the road. May be my eye sight is to low.
> It looks very blurred but the grass to the left seems to be blurred less. If it
> is not only an earth texture, I would suggest to place a wet dog there (or a one
> a little bit more on focus). Otherwise I didn't expected this development of
> your image (from a more desert to a living valley). I like it, well done!

The brown structure /is/ a dog. It is well-focussed too as everything is 
in focus here. Using dof makes the render way too slow even with a very 
small aperture, so I left that out momentarily.

Concerning the environment: this is not really a truly desertic region. 
It looks a bit like the Djurdjura Region in Algeria (I have lived there 
for a short time). The proximity of the Mediterranean and the presence 
of the River Yann here combine. The desert is not far away however. 
Think of the Nile for an analogy.

Thomas

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>Thomas de Groot  on date 10/12/2013 16.00 wrote:
> Obviously a wip (see broken trees); some six weeks to grow vegetation
> but mainly to streamline the growing mass of code linking the various
> scenes, includes, and macros that form the complex world of Gancaloon.
> Especially the (partly automated) switchboard between camera viewpoints
> is becoming a challenge. Still, much to do on this particular scene.
> Making good trees with POV-Tree is not an easy task, neither with Arbaro
> I must say. Except for the palm trees, I am not happy with the others.
> So, it will keep raining for a little while I am afraid ;-)
>
> Thomas
This scene begins to become epic!
I like especially the contrast of the grass.
;-)
Paolo

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On 11-12-2013 10:13, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
> This scene begins to become epic!
> I like especially the contrast of the grass.
> ;-)

Thank you indeed. It slowly goes where I want it to go. For the grass I 
used Bill Pragnell's macro, with some modifications. Trying to find a 
balance between fast parsing and believable texture variations when 
using huge amounts of grass instances.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Obviously a wip (see broken trees); some six weeks to grow vegetation
> but mainly to streamline the growing mass of code linking the various
> scenes, includes, and macros that form the complex world of Gancaloon.
> Especially the (partly automated) switchboard between camera viewpoints
> is becoming a challenge. Still, much to do on this particular scene.
> Making good trees with POV-Tree is not an easy task, neither with Arbaro
> I must say. Except for the palm trees, I am not happy with the others.
> So, it will keep raining for a little while I am afraid ;-)
>
> Thomas

That must be some serious wind to shear the trees like that, this is looking
great, the trunks on the trees on the left look a bit flat but you already say
you are not happy with them so hopefully will find a way to improve it (if you
do let me know as I have suffered this problem before with arbaro).

Sean

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 10-12-2013 18:55, Fractracer wrote:
> > Great image, like a painting.
> >
>
> Thanks indeed. It seems my images often take a painting look. I am not
> sure why though...
>


I think it is because of the amount of time and effort you put into it.
That and having a good eye with a little bit of skill. ;-)
Keep it up and we will have a new Old Dutch Master.

Stephen

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On 12-12-2013 8:33, Stephen wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> On 10-12-2013 18:55, Fractracer wrote:
>>> Great image, like a painting.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks indeed. It seems my images often take a painting look. I am not
>> sure why though...
>>
>
>
> I think it is because of the amount of time and effort you put into it.
> That and having a good eye with a little bit of skill. ;-)
> Keep it up and we will have a new Old Dutch Master.
>

<grin> I sometimes feel quiet stupid struggling endlessly with unruly 
elements of my scenes, or programs that do not yield what I want from 
them. POV-Tree and Arbaro are amongst those latter but I suspect partly 
because of my own inconsistent use of them. I am not always most patient 
with documentations.

That said, I suppose my use of colours contributes too. Anyway, as long 
as I keep the feeling that I have not yet reached the heel level of 
Gilles Tran, I shall not call myself a Master even while I am old and 
Dutch ;-)

Thomas

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On 11-12-2013 17:41, s.day wrote:
>
> That must be some serious wind to shear the trees like that, this is looking
> great, the trunks on the trees on the left look a bit flat but you already say
> you are not happy with them so hopefully will find a way to improve it (if you
> do let me know as I have suffered this problem before with arbaro).
>

Ha! It is one of those things I don't like in POV-Tree but which 
simulates strong winds in this case. I have difficulty in controlling 
the angles within the hierarchy of branches to twigs. Somehow, POV-Tree 
always does something different from what I expect, and then the leaf 
bunches do their own thing :-(

The flatness should be diminished with a proper use of normals. That 
should apply as well for Arbaro. As far as POV-Tree is concerned, I 
should delve a little more into uv_mapping...

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 12-12-2013 8:33, Stephen wrote:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >> On 10-12-2013 18:55, Fractracer wrote:
>
> <grin> I sometimes feel quiet stupid struggling endlessly with unruly
> elements of my scenes, or programs that do not yield what I want from
> them. POV-Tree and Arbaro are amongst those latter but I suspect partly
> because of my own inconsistent use of them. I am not always most patient
> with documentations.
>
> That said, I suppose my use of colours contributes too. Anyway, as long
> as I keep the feeling that I have not yet reached the heel level of
> Gilles Tran, I shall not call myself a Master even while I am old and
> Dutch ;-)
>
> Thomas

When we make images even if we are trying to reproduce an existing scene, we
often introduce some personnals parts. You say you have not the level of Gilles
Tran, I believe you have (and all of the users of Pov) a different level, not in
a technical scale value, but in sensibility. Everybody is different and we all
have a different approach of the artistic contruction.
I think in future times some works made in Pov (or other softwares) will remains
like human tributes to the world. And some works will have a high artistic
value. All under the Pov banner.

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On 12-12-2013 12:21, Fractracer wrote:
>
> When we make images even if we are trying to reproduce an existing scene, we
> often introduce some personnals parts. You say you have not the level of Gilles
> Tran, I believe you have (and all of the users of Pov) a different level, not in
> a technical scale value, but in sensibility. Everybody is different and we all
> have a different approach of the artistic contruction.

Thanks for your kind words indeed. It is true that we all have different 
sensibilities and that it shows in our work. As such, I fully agree that 
comparison with others is fallacious other wise we should all be 
undistinguishable from each other, all little Gilles Trans by ourselves ;-)

And yet, I cannot hide humility in front of the true masters and trying 
to learn from them :-)

> I think in future times some works made in Pov (or other softwares) will remains
> like human tributes to the world. And some works will have a high artistic
> value. All under the Pov banner.
>

Time will learn. I sometimes wonder how the electronic arts will be 
judged by future generations.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 12-12-2013 12:21, Fractracer wrote:
>
> And yet, I cannot hide humility in front of the true masters and trying
> to learn from them :-)
>
>
> Time will learn. I sometimes wonder how the electronic arts will be
> judged by future generations.
>
> Thomas

The technics of graphims evolve, electronic arts are one of the many evolutions.
In this actual century a lot of artistics technics are used that never been
before (cutting, collage, hyper-realistics painting - take a look at this page:
http://dailygeekshow.com/2013/09/12/16-artistes-talentueux-qui-vont-vous-faire-croire-que-leurs-oeuvres-sont-des-photog
raphies-mais-il-nen-est-rien/
some painting seems like ray-tracing images (use of reflected spheres).
I think technics used inspiration in other technics. And I believe the
electronics arts will be accepted like a whole art.
Actually how many artists (I means people who make creations), we live a time
with a incredible flow of creations. But in older times, for one master we know,
how many others painters? For one Van Gogh, how many painters unknown.

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