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Jeremy M. Praay wrote:
> "Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msn com> wrote in message
> news:4613d09a$1@news.povray.org...
>
>>Beautiful picture, Jeremy. The command of texture is remarkable. Its
>>understated use here compliments a greater sense of beauty through
>>simplicity. Conceptually the picture is a sophisticated play on miniature,
>>fantasy, and depiction itself. The introduction of the ivy on the bonsai
>>has me puzzled, but that aside, I see a wealth of possibilities here.
>
>
> Thank you! :-) For me, it simply represents a lot of
> fantasy/feelings/interests that I have. If I tap into my own emotions, I
> just have to hope that it works for someone else as well. What is the girl
> looking at? It's a simple answer, but it means a lot of work for me. I
> hope I can pull it off. No, I'm not telling what it is. ;-)
Yes, that is what I meant by "depiction itself", to elaborate, I was
refering to the question of how to "depict" inner life: emotion,
feelings, thoughts, attention. There is something reflective,
contemplative, and possibly *introspective* about miniatures. In
addition, the implied scope of the miniature's "world" provides a
theatrical "stage".
>
> Ivy... Hmmm... What do you do when you have a part of your picture that
> you want to cover up? :-) Like I said in another post, the tree-bark was
> causing me grief. I finally got it to look pretty good, but I still had
> this large trunk that just seemed too bare. For real bonsai, I think that's
> often the look that they strive for (bare trunks), but they have real bark,
> and real trees, not TomTree's. I tried various tree rotations, ways of
> lighting, etc. Regardless, I decided I liked the ivy, because, at least in
> my mind, it adds a touch of age-old gothic mystery to the tree*, as well as
> adding some shadows to otherwise bland places. But I have considered
> re-growing it with different parameters, as it really gets bunched-up in the
> middle of the tree.
It goes against my principles to say too much, but that I am tempted too
shows how interesting I find the picture. The ivy does come off as
just that, some sort of muddying of the waters. Perhaps to cover up not
quite realized details, or perhaps as an element that once made sense
but now just confuses. By climbing up the tree the ivy intermediates
between the two levels of scale, the real world scale of the miniature
tree, and the fantasy miniature scale of the figures relative to whom
the tree is "real scale" not miniature. The leaves of the ivy seem
caught in between, just as the ivy is rooted in the miniature grass but
climbing up the real world tree. The scale of the leaves is plausible,
as some sort of grape-type creeper, but not the scale of garden ivy we
are more familiar with. Further, there is a sense of "interference"
with the leaves of the tree. It does grieve me to expose you to such
close critique, but then close observation and mincing conception are
invited by the whole precept of the picture. It is deceptively casual,
and really quite ambitious. Please see my critique as enthusiasm.
>
> I'm still considering it a WIP, but I'm also planning to move on to the next
> in the series. I've often thought of doing a series, but I never had a
> decent concept. But now, I have at least 3 other images in mind already.
Yes, move on.
> Wish me luck.
Luck.
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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:4613fd55$1@news.povray.org...
>
> It goes against my principles to say too much, but that I am tempted too
> shows how interesting I find the picture. The ivy does come off as just
> that, some sort of muddying of the waters. Perhaps to cover up not quite
> realized details, or perhaps as an element that once made sense but now
> just confuses. By climbing up the tree the ivy intermediates between the
> two levels of scale, the real world scale of the miniature tree, and the
> fantasy miniature scale of the figures relative to whom the tree is "real
> scale" not miniature. The leaves of the ivy seem caught in between, just
> as the ivy is rooted in the miniature grass but climbing up the real world
> tree. The scale of the leaves is plausible, as some sort of grape-type
> creeper, but not the scale of garden ivy we are more familiar with.
> Further, there is a sense of "interference" with the leaves of the tree.
> It does grieve me to expose you to such close critique, but then close
> observation and mincing conception are invited by the whole precept of the
> picture. It is deceptively casual, and really quite ambitious. Please see
> my critique as enthusiasm.
I'm glad to have your critique. At this point, I believe I can handle
comments much better than a few years ago, especially as I become more
comfortable with my skill-level (acknowleding both my strengths and
weaknesses). So, always feel free to state your opinion. It means a lot to
me. :-)
I initially tried a much smaller ivy, but it seemed to nearly strangle the
tree to death. I spent so much time getting it to look "good" that perhaps
it's clouding my judgement now. The Ivy Generator is awsome (like a
rolex!), but perhaps this isn't the best place for it. Ok, I have a few
things to think about.
A couple other technical things that worry me: 1) I need to do something
about the front-left foot of the bonsai stand to get rid of the "floating"
appearence. My radiosity settings are too low, or I need to change the
spotlight a bit. 2) The twigs of my tree extend beyond the leaves. But I
can live with that, as it's not completely "unnatural". I still have a lot
of trouble understanding and remembering the POV-Tree parameters.
Your enthusiasm kindles my own, so I hope you'll be around when I post my
next scene, or set of scenes. Ultimately, I have a fairly ambitious plan,
but maintaining my interest that long is going to be difficult. I'll be
fairly content if I get 3-4 scenes complete, but it's certainly possible for
me do about a dozen. Ideally, the "whole" will be greater than the sum of
its parts. I'd explain more about my plans, but I like the element of
surprise, and the ability to change my plans. :-)
(On a side note, it sure is difficult for me to discuss my "Art" without
feeling extremely self-involved. It's probably a good off-topic
discussion.)
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"Bill Pragnell" <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:web.4613f46766d144881b04b8bf0@news.povray.org...
> Beautiful. I shall keep coming back to this picture I think.
>
> One thing I notice is that the brightness looks fine on an LCD screen but
> is
> a little too dark on a CRT... when I fired up my laptop for another look
> there was so much more visible!
I'm always making dark images (literally dark). Perhaps I find shadows
intriguing. Or perhaps the use of lots of shadows just tricks the mind into
thinking that you are seeing more than you really are. I often like using
them to add detail where there really isn't any. Anyway, my scenes often
end up being kind of dark as a result, and printing them only compounds the
problem. Sigh.
> Good work indeed. I look forward to the
> next in the series!
>
Thanks! :-)
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I Love this one. I'm only just beginning, but I wish I could produce images
like this! I love it!
"Jeremy M. Praay" <jer### [at] questsoftwarecom> wrote:
> I enjoy thinking up clever names for my pictures, but so far one hasn't come
> to me. Anyway, here is my latest picture.
>
> I've been working on it off and on for the past few months (mostly off).
> Ultimately, I would like to create a series of images based upon this
> foundation. I have A LOT of ideas, but I'm not sure if it will hold my
> attention for that long. I don't know about the rest of you, but as soon as
> I stop enjoying working on a picture, it seems to be impossible for me to
> finish it. Hopefully, this will keep my interest for long enough to create
> a nice series.
>
> Ivy courtesy of the Ivy Generator.
> Grass via Gilles make grass (modified a bit).
> Bonsai created with POV-Tree.
> Girl and Horse from DAZ.
>
> --
> Jeremy M. Praay
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"ignominius" <ign### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:web.4614e39066d14488d4f0306c0@news.povray.org...
>I Love this one. I'm only just beginning, but I wish I could produce
>images
> like this! I love it!
>
Thank you! :-)
Keep practicing, use radiosity, use area lights, and good anti-aliasing, and
you can make even a sphere on a checkered plane start to look pretty nice.
But most of all, have patience. This took more than a day to render at this
resolution.
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> Tree bark: I had a difficult time with it. I might play around with it a
> little more, but it's a major improvement from what I had.
In all honesty, I wouldn't say anything at all about the tree bark, but
everything else in the picture is executed so perfectly. The image looks
to me a bit above average even for this group, and is way beyond
anything I've been able to do. :-)
> Moss or Grass? At first, I wanted it to look more like moss, but later, I
> changed my mind, and thought it would be kind of fun to actually have it be
> a grassy set of hills...
Cool, then. :-)
If it is grass, its been mowed awfully short, though; it looks like a
hilly putting green.
Once again, this is a beautiful image. ;-)
William
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A stunning picture. I was actually most impressed by how well you've done
the minor elements, especially the planter pot. The subtlety of the painted
glaze and the scultpted unevenness of the surface really make it look
handmade.
Congratulations!
Stephen Klebs
http://www.cloudinthesky.com
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Man... I was half expecting to see a girl who looks like a horse that's
been bonsai'd... o_O
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"Orchid XP v3" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:4615f5b5$1@news.povray.org...
> Man... I was half expecting to see a girl who looks like a horse that's
> been bonsai'd... o_O
Yeah, someone mentioned "Bonsai Kitten". LOL.
I now have "The Bonsai Life" as my current working title for the series.
"La Vida Bonsai" would also be a cute pop-culture referencing title, but not
quite suitable for me, since I'm not a native Spanish speaker.
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"Stephen Klebs" <skl### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
news:web.46158a5766d14488977978930@news.povray.org...
>A stunning picture. I was actually most impressed by how well you've done
> the minor elements, especially the planter pot. The subtlety of the
> painted
> glaze and the scultpted unevenness of the surface really make it look
> handmade.
>
> Congratulations!
>
Thanks! The texture pot was one of those things that I got a little lucky
with. I tried a bazillian different textures, and nothing looked quite
right, then "Bingo!" I guess that's part of what I like about using
procedural textures; sometimes the effects are better than what I could do
by hand.
To get the unevenness, I used isosurfaces (iso-csg library) with tiny
normals stretched in the X-Z directions to give the appearance of brush
strokes. I did the same with the varnish on the stand. I don't even know
if it makes a difference at this resolution, but I sometimes enjoy working
on the details that lie at the edge of perception.
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