"Jon Buller" <jon### [at] bullersnet> wrote:
> "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote:
> > Following my earlier post I've decided to go with the volcano image. This is
> > the latest version, but I'm suffering a case of povver's block! I can see
> > the volcano looks bad, but I don't know why. Any suggestions?
> >
> > --
> > Tek
> > http://evilsuperbrain.com
>
> [Bunch of stuff...]

One more thing I thought of just after the post button was hit...

That ash cloud doesn't seem right.  As someone else said it's too
symetrical, but I think worse is that it looks like it just hanging above
not coming up from...  It might just be a really large dark rain cloud the
way it is...

There I've done it again, that is the point I want to make, but much too
harsh in it's presentation.  It's not as bad as I make it out, and doesn't
need a whole lot to be really great.  Keep at it.

BTW, I like the lava better in your second image, but I think it needs some
of the cloud mixed in with it.

Jon

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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:43d66ec3$1@news.povray.org...
> Now, volcanos I think don't tend to be quite so vertical, nor quite so 
> symetric.  There would probably also be outbreaks of lava on the slopes as 
> well. It does, after all, melt through rock.

Good points, I'm working on all that right now :)

> The smoke seems very symetrical also. If there were no wind, I'd think it 
> would be going mostly up, or up then back down in an umbrella-like shape. 
> Maybe having the smoke going one way and the lava coming down on the other 
> side would give a nice balance.

Agreed, it's also way too translucent for volcanic smoke, I stopped working 
on it because it looks really pretty, but it's definitely going to need to 
change a lot... hopefully I can make it look pretty -and- right!

> I also doubt you'd find snow on the slopes of an active volcano,

Well according to any number of discovery channel documentaries it's pretty 
common. Volcano erupts, suddenly melts lots of snow, huge flooding in 
surrounding areas. The specific eruption that inspired this image was Mt. 
St. Helens, though the initial eruption was mostly just a huge explosion of 
snow and rock, and lava might not have started spouting out of it until all 
the snow was gone.

This isn't meant to be a stable eruption, so I'm going to need to work on 
some more dramatic effects I think.

> The ground is both too black and too bare. Lava is very shiney, as the 
> surfaces were all liquid a short time ago and cooled under gravity. It's 
> mostly brittle and crunchy, like blown glass. Plus it's full of delicious 
> plant nutrients, so even days after an eruption, you get grass there, 
> saplings, etc.

In hawaii this is true, and that's the only volcano I've been to. but my 
understanding is that volcanos that have lain dormant for a while actually 
end up covered mostly in very fertile dark soil and more mountain-like rock, 
and less smooth glassy rock... maybe... you know it's really beginning to 
sound like I need to do some research for this image! how tedious!

> The water near the shore looks kind of grey, but I don't know if that's 
> correct or not. Unless that's supposed to be a beach or something.

That's sand, and it's a placeholder I forgot I'd left in there. Oops! Thanks 
for pointing it out.

> I'm looking forward to how you manage the glow of the lava. :-)

Hmm... I thought I'd get away without radiosity in this image, but I think 
if I have much lava I'll need it...

-- 
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com

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> Also, something about the lava (which I associate with places like Hawaii)
> rather than ash/steam, and the light color of the water makes me think
> 'tropical' which is incongrous with the snow.

Good point. I was basing the water colour on some documentary footage I saw, 
but of course that was filmed in hawaii. The lava I'm not so sure about, 
surely there's no reason you can't get lava in cold climates?

I think your comments on shape and how far away it is have hit the nail on 
the head, I've not really thought about the scale of the scene. I have some 
fog on the mountains behind the volcano, and was going to have some steam 
coming off the water in the foreground, but I think in any case I need 
something giving a depth cue on the volcano itself. Incidentally, at the 
moment I think the water is the ocean, and we're in a fairly cold climate, 
but I might change it to a lake if the image starts going that way.

Thanks for the links, that'll save me the trouble of looking for some good 
reference photos!

-- 
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com

"Charles C" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message 
news:web.43d68d2c89a10e0058035aeb0@news.povray.org...
> I'm sure our ideas on what a volcano should look like will differ with 
> what
> kind of mountains are nearby.  For me, here are the two I think of first
> when I think 'volcano'since they're the neighborhood mountains (climbed
> Helens, skied Hood.) They probably won't be much help for lava realism
> though.  I agree with Darren about the symetry & verticality.  Hood is
> fairly conical but still a lot flatter and irregular than how your 
> mountain
> is now.  St Helens apparently was once noted for how symetrical it was
> (prior to what it's most famous for - it's 1980 dissappearance of it's
> top). :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_St._Helens
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Hood
>
> Also, something about the lava (which I associate with places like Hawaii)
> rather than ash/steam, and the light color of the water makes me think
> 'tropical' which is incongrous with the snow. If the snow is due to
> elevation I would expect foothills or something to show that the body of
> water is a mountain lake or something.   On the other hand,  in response 
> to
> Darren, Mt St Helens is an example of an active volcano that does have
> snow.
>
> Hmm, anything else... How far away is it?  Maybe some haze?
>
>
> Charles
>
>
> "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote:
>> Following my earlier post I've decided to go with the volcano image. This 
>> is
>> the latest version, but I'm suffering a case of povver's block! I can see
>> the volcano looks bad, but I don't know why. Any suggestions?
>>
>> --
>> Tek
>> http://evilsuperbrain.com
>
>
>

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Steam columns! Brilliant idea! Thank you.

BTW the background moutains -are- cones :) I'll stick a heightfield in there 
later when I'm happy with the foreground.

Thanks for all those comments, there's some good ideas in there. And 
regarding the underwater bit, I really don't want to lose the cutaway, it's 
what makes this image unusual, but you're right about caustics and render 
times. We shall see...

-- 
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com

"Alain" <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote in message 
news:43d6b13c@news.povray.org...
> Tek nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 24/01/2006 12:25:
>> Following my earlier post I've decided to go with the volcano image. This 
>> is the latest version, but I'm suffering a case of povver's block! I can 
>> see the volcano looks bad, but I don't know why. Any suggestions?
>>
>>
> Maybe some more snow near the top. Make the lava ejection narower, between 
> 1/4 and 1/2 the diameter of the top and uncenterer. As it must be a 
> volcano awakening, there can be snow up to the rim and inside of the 
> crater, there should be a lot of steam. One or two steam column rising 
> from somewhere on the slopes can add much interest.
> The background mountains are WAY to conical.
> I would expect the water to be mostly dark gray, it reflect mostly the 
> dark ash cloud and should not be as blue as it is now. It's colour should 
> comes from what over it and from some fade_color.
> Adding caustics can improve the aquatic effect. I don't think that using 
> photons here is worth the effort nor the increased render time.
> If you are short on time, I propose that you drop the under water part, or 
> only have it visible trough the surface, disturbed by the waves: remove 
> the cutaway in the water.
>
> -- 
> Alain
> -------------------------------------------------
> Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.

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Sweet! Yeah I'm going to add a river of lava in a while, though I think I'll 
write a particle system in pov so it actually flows down the mountain. Nice 
eruption effect, I'm going to have to add something like that :)

-- 
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com

"Rene Bui" <ren### [at] freefr> wrote in message 
news:web.43d6b60189a10e0057a4b5680@news.povray.org...
> "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote:
>> the volcano looks bad, but I don't know why. Any suggestions?
>
> I'm not sure but maybe something like this (Photoshop cheating)
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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"Jon Buller" <jon### [at] bullersnet> wrote in message 
news:web.43d6c8f889a10e00be920ef30@news.povray.org...
> That ash cloud doesn't seem right.  As someone else said it's too
> symetrical, but I think worse is that it looks like it just hanging above
> not coming up from...  It might just be a really large dark rain cloud the
> way it is...

Yup, well as you can see in the really early WIP I had this lovely complex 
shape, then it looked terrible when I filled it with media so I wussed out 
and now it's just a squashed sphere! I'm going to add more form too it.

> There I've done it again, that is the point I want to make, but much too
> harsh in it's presentation.  It's not as bad as I make it out, and doesn't
> need a whole lot to be really great.  Keep at it.

Seriously don't worry about it, in my opinion that wasn't too harsh, just 
good constructive criticism.

> BTW, I like the lava better in your second image, but I think it needs 
> some
> of the cloud mixed in with it.

I think you're referring to the photoshoped image someone else posted... :)

-- 
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com

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Tek wrote:
> Good point. I was basing the water colour on some documentary footage I saw, 
> but of course that was filmed in hawaii. The lava I'm not so sure about, 
> surely there's no reason you can't get lava in cold climates?
> 
	Of course you can get lava in cold climates:
http://images.google.fr/images?q=iceland+volcano&hl=fr&btnG=Recherche+d%27images

		Jerome

- --
******************************
*      Jerome M. Berger      *
*  mailto:jeb### [at] freefr   *
*  http://jeberger.free.fr/  *
******************************
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Darren New wrote:
> Now, volcanos I think don't tend to be quite so vertical, nor quite so 
> symetric.

Tough to generalize.


Some like these:
   http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/images/JPG/small_screen/fig62.jpg
   http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/volcano-tours/uploads/pics/semeru_53206_01.jpg
  
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/images/JPG/large_screen/fig95.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/album.html&h=696&w=1024&sz=212&tbnid=zxYNryPeanCIFM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsteep%2Bvolcano%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
   http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/images/JPG/small_screen/fig70.jpg
   http://www.uoguelph.ca/~sadura/igref/strato.jpg
   http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/13124/11_026_23.jpg
are very symmetric.

And this one:
  
http://www.volcanos.ms/images/Guatemala/2003_04_14_Expedition_Fuego/fuego_exped-9d-rueckweg-nach-soledad-fuego-eruption.jpg
seems very steep.


> I also doubt you'd find snow on the slopes of an active volcano, as it's 
> not unusual for the ground to be like 3000 degrees six inches down. 

quite a few of those linked above have snow and appear active.

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Ron M wrote:
> quite a few of those linked above have snow and appear active.

Yeah. I guess it depends on whether the entire region is active, or 
what. Plus, Yellowstone is quite active and still gets snow on the 
ground, so I stand corrected. :-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
    Crate & Barrel - Leading Supplier to
      Video Game Worlds Since 1962!

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Ron M nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 26/01/2006 12:09:
> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> Now, volcanos I think don't tend to be quite so vertical, nor quite so 
>> symetric.
> 
> 
> Tough to generalize.
> 
> 
> Some like these:
>   http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/images/JPG/small_screen/fig62.jpg
>   
> http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/volcano-tours/uploads/pics/semeru_53206_01.jpg 
> 
>   
>
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/images/JPG/large_screen/fig95.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/album.html&h=696&w=1024&sz=212&tbnid=zxYNryPeanCIFM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsteep%2Bvolcano%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

> 
>   http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-40/images/JPG/small_screen/fig70.jpg
>   http://www.uoguelph.ca/~sadura/igref/strato.jpg
>   http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/13124/11_026_23.jpg
> are very symmetric.
> 
> And this one:
>   
>
http://www.volcanos.ms/images/Guatemala/2003_04_14_Expedition_Fuego/fuego_exped-9d-rueckweg-nach-soledad-fuego-eruption.jpg

> 
> seems very steep.
> 
> 
>> I also doubt you'd find snow on the slopes of an active volcano, as 
>> it's not unusual for the ground to be like 3000 degrees six inches down. 
> 
> 
> quite a few of those linked above have snow and appear active.
> 
When tha lava is very fluid, like in Awaii, the volcano get broad: the lava can flows
fast and far 
away before hardening.
When the lava is thick, the volcano gets steeper: it flows slowly and can't get far
before hardening.
That make Tek's volcano a thick lava variety. Those tend to send prety big lava blobs
on the air, 
when they shoot lava in the air... They also are more prone to have explosive
eruptions.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
When the bosses talk about improving productivity, they are never talking about
themselves.

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