s.day wrote:
> I like the background but think it needs to look a bit more like it is
> underwater, I have never done an underwater scene so I can't really give
> any advice (I wouldn't know where to start except I expect very long trace
> times..)

As a certified scuba diver, I can say that the background *and* the 
flotsam are both quite convincing. It's simply a deep evening dive.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     The samba was clearly inspired
     by the margarita.

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Jim, this is almost like an underwater flash pic if this is possible. It 
seems to have been captured by a camera flash light to me. I think this is 
why I like it, apart from the modeling, which is close to excellent.

    It does need some movement at some stage though, which I know you're 
considering. Attached is an overhead shot of my crap shark, but I think I 
captured the movement ok. I did this some time ago now. Hope it helps in 
some way.

   Hmm... you do drive me onwards with your modeling and ideas.

     ~Steve~

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Attachments:
Download 'shark2.jpg' (16 KB)

Preview of image 'shark2.jpg'

Jim Charter wrote:
> 
> I have taken the approach of incrementally refining different aspects of
>   the scene rather than trying to perfect one thing, say the model,
> before proceeding to the next.  I am still tempted to use just a black
> bg for the scene though.
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  [Image]

Nice modeling, I like it.

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Darren New wrote:
> s.day wrote:
> 
>> I like the background but think it needs to look a bit more like it is
>> underwater, I have never done an underwater scene so I can't really give
>> any advice (I wouldn't know where to start except I expect very long 
>> trace
>> times..)
> 
> 
> As a certified scuba diver, I can say that the background *and* the 
> flotsam are both quite convincing. It's simply a deep evening dive.
> 
Cool, I'll take it!

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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:

This is starting to look quite realistic.  As Steve said, it looks like a
flash photo with backscatter from suspended particles in the water column.

One thing; water tends to shorten flash ranges to about 2-8 ft, decreasing
with the amount of particulate matter, so for this picture to be realistic
the shark would have to be fairly small and about 4-5 ft from the camera.

I'd make the water a shade greener, then make the 'flash' brighter but with
a short fade-distance so there's greater contrast between the near and far
areas.

Also, with particles that large, I'd expect a LOT more smaller particles. I
think a wider range of particle size would be more realistic.

Here's a shot with roughly the same water color as yours, note the sediment
backscatter and how the colors wash out rapidly further from the flash.
This was a wide angle shot, so the shadows in the background are rocks no
more than 10-12 ft away, yet they're almost completely black.

RG

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Attachments:
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Preview of image 'sd034.jpg'

gonzo wrote:
> Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> 
> This is starting to look quite realistic.  As Steve said, it looks like a
> flash photo with backscatter from suspended particles in the water column.
> 
> One thing; water tends to shorten flash ranges to about 2-8 ft, decreasing
> with the amount of particulate matter, so for this picture to be realistic
> the shark would have to be fairly small and about 4-5 ft from the camera.
> 
> I'd make the water a shade greener, then make the 'flash' brighter but with
> a short fade-distance so there's greater contrast between the near and far
> areas.
> 
> Also, with particles that large, I'd expect a LOT more smaller particles. I
> think a wider range of particle size would be more realistic.
> 
> Here's a shot with roughly the same water color as yours, note the sediment
> backscatter and how the colors wash out rapidly further from the flash.
> This was a wide angle shot, so the shadows in the background are rocks no
> more than 10-12 ft away, yet they're almost completely black.
> 

Thanks Ron.  It is very helpful to have that information confirmed 
especially about the water color.  I did in fact have a media layer of 
fine yellow "pea" included but took it out because I was worried that it 
was looking too turgid.  I'll put it back and go for a render in closer 
with wider camera angle and lighting as you suggest.  The thing is the 
modeling/texturing on the shark isn't detailed enough yet to sustain a 
real close view.  And my command of media effects isn't quite up to a 
long view with sunlight coming down from a surface plane.  But getting 
there. ;)

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St. wrote:
> Jim, this is almost like an underwater flash pic if this is possible. It 
> seems to have been captured by a camera flash light to me. I think this 
> is why I like it, apart from the modeling, which is close to excellent.

The light is placed near the camera like a flash and it has a pretty 
steep fade power.  But it is a spot light with a fall off angle of 
around 20 degrees.  So I was really thinking directional strobe but I 
guess a flash could be directed too.  Anyway I'll try some wider angles 
and other things.  Thanks for the support.

> 
>    It does need some movement at some stage though, which I know you're 
> considering. Attached is an overhead shot of my crap shark, but I think 
> I captured the movement ok. I did this some time ago now. Hope it helps 
> in some way.
>


Nice shot.  I see you went for the aqua sea color too.

   And you see I was right.  At some point you just gotta try doing a shark.

   But okay okay, I'll make the shark wiggle,,,soon.

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Alberto Mendoza wrote:
> 
> Jim Charter wrote:
> 
>>I have taken the approach of incrementally refining different aspects of
>>  the scene rather than trying to perfect one thing, say the model,
>>before proceeding to the next.  I am still tempted to use just a black
>>bg for the scene though.
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [Image]
> 
> 
> Nice modeling, I like it.
Thanks Alberto and back at ya.  Great first cut on a very tough subject 
... the female face you posted.

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht
news:42dd4561@news.povray.org...
> I have taken the approach of incrementally refining different aspects of
>   the scene rather than trying to perfect one thing, say the model,
> before proceeding to the next.  I am still tempted to use just a black
> bg for the scene though.
>
Wow! Not only convincing, but terrifying! Very good job.

Thomas

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> I have taken the approach of incrementally refining different aspects of 
>  the scene rather than trying to perfect one thing, say the model, 
> before proceeding to the next.  I am still tempted to use just a black 
> bg for the scene though.

Looks very nice to me !
Please don't put a black bg !!!!!

-- 
Dark Skull Software
http://www.darkskull.net

A+

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