Hey, I made a ring for Adam Benton! :) Nice guy, and good artist.

  Cool. (That made my day). :)

  ~Steve~

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I thought the same thing, having had a few books published myself.  Paying
in to have something published seems to me like paying to be listed in
some "elite registry" and then having to purchase the books.

Someone wants to use stuff I've written or created, they pay me, not the
other way around.

I'd love to hear the explanation behind this....

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I agree with you folks.

Quoting their page: "There is a $20.00 submission fee for the first image 
and $10.00 for each additional image up to 5 (five) total. (Credit Card 
payments only.)"
As if I'm ever going to pay for something like this.

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I thought the same thing, having had a few books published myself.  Paying
> in to have something published seems to me like paying to be listed in
> some "elite registry" and then having to purchase the books.
> 
> Someone wants to use stuff I've written or created, they pay me, not the
> other way around.
> 
> I'd love to hear the explanation behind this....
In the traditional art art world their is a circuit if "juried shows" 
which artists can enter.  Many are free but many have modest entry fees. 
  It is nothing more than vanity publishing hiding behind the guise of a 
contest, however they actually command a certain legitimacy.  Modest 
entry fees can legitimately cover costs and the ability to list 
acceptance in quantities of these shows gains a foot in the door on the 
regional college teaching circuit, where the world of stand alone 
professional artists is a foreign thing anyway. At the very least it 
shows you are serious enough to get yourself organized and enter 
hundreds of these things.

The practice of selling vanity "shows" in New York is of course a much 
nastier business.  Clients are thought to be little regional college 
professors seeking to protect their precious tenured positions.  Also 
their are foreign artists who seem to have no qualms, and no illusions, 
about buying a "New York" show then returning to their regional setting 
and leveraging the "New York" entry on their resume for all it is worth.

So it doesn't surprise me to see this show up in the web/cg world.  But 
here self-publishing is already the norm so seemingly the status of hard 
copy publishing is being traded on.  It might be an out and out scam, in 
the sense that no book will ever result.  Or it might just a trade on 
peoples vanity.

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Submission Fees (non-refundable):
There is a $20.00 submission fee for the first image and $10.00 for each
additional image up to 5 (five) total. (Credit Card payments only.)
(Please understand the panel may select any single image, or combination of
images. They are not required to select all works from any particular
submission or artist. There is no guarantee that any of your submitted
images will be selected. The panel's decision is final and is not open to
debate. Renderosity and AAPPL will not enter into correspondence about the
selection process.)



Well that to me sounds a bit scary.  I sense a LOT of users crying because
they paid fees and never got work published.  One good thing out of this
though, is kids will not be scammed, since you need a Credit Card just to
submit. LOL!!

If there is going to be any suckers it will be adults only.

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The Mad Hatter wrote:
> Submission Fees (non-refundable):
> There is a $20.00 submission fee for the first image and $10.00 for each
> additional image up to 5 (five) total. (Credit Card payments only.)
> (Please understand the panel may select any single image, or combination of
> images. They are not required to select all works from any particular
> submission or artist. There is no guarantee that any of your submitted
> images will be selected. The panel's decision is final and is not open to
> debate. Renderosity and AAPPL will not enter into correspondence about the
> selection process.)
> 
> 
> 
> Well that to me sounds a bit scary.  I sense a LOT of users crying because
> they paid fees and never got work published.  One good thing out of this
> though, is kids will not be scammed, since you need a Credit Card just to
> submit. LOL!!
> 
> If there is going to be any suckers it will be adults only.
> 
Yes that is exactly how those little art juried shows, that I mentioned, 
worked.  They usually published the number of entrants, maybe 2500, of 
which maybe 125 will be included in the show.  Entrants payed $0 - $20 
to submit one or two 35mm slides of their work.  It was done by mail and 
the audience was typically the continental US.  I did it for a couple of 
years; anything to get attention, and realistically speaking, it was an 
appropriate forum for the conservative little still lifes I was 
painting.  I remember that I did some calculation that on average, say 
5% of the entrants were selected for any given show, and that I was 
included in say 25% of the shows I entered, so I figured that that meant 
I was doing better than average.  Silly in retrospect.  Every once in a 
while I'd win a small prize or sell a work and that would approximately 
cover my fees and mail expenses for the year so I was able to 
rationalize the whole thing.

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Interesting - not something I had heard of before - thanks!

Jim

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4233268b@news.povray.org...

> I'm not familiar with submitting artwork for someone else's book. So, I 
> don't know if it is common practice to ask the author of some artwork to 
> pay for inclusion of his work in a book. I always thought *I'd* get paid 
> royalties if someone wanted to use my work... But all things being equal, 
> it's crying out "scam" to me. I don't have anything that's even remotely 
> worthy of being published, but I wouldn't pay for it if I had.

I think that they just want to keep out as much joke/subpar/noise entries as 
possible. Renderosity has a huge following and this contest covers a lot of 
ground, from digital photography to 3D. It could become swamped in thousands 
of totally useless pictures (family pics, "my first rendering", goatse, 
class assignments etc.). Putting a minimal entry fee is probably the only 
way to make sure that the entrants are serious about the contest, i.e. that 
they actually believe that their work belong to such a book.

G.

-- 
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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This reminds me of the time my sister's school entered one of her poems into
some other contest.  Turned out she got it selected to be printed in a book.
What I found suspicious off the bat was not only did she get no royalties,
not a cent... but they wanted to charge her 80$ for the book.

Of course she thought herself ontop of the world, and so my parents pooled
the cash in and ordered the book.  And then, we discover that 98% of the
stuff in there was a damn joke.  We are talking newbie-ish of the newbie
stuff.  Hell, most these writers could not even get proper grammer
foundations down.

There is a sucker born every minute.  And many waiting to capitalize on
them.

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"Bryan Valencia" <pov### [at] spamgourmetcom> wrote:
>
http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=514&AID=90&Form.sess_id=32004398&Form.sess_key=1110577892
>
> Sure, there's an entry fee.  But let's see how many of us can get a POV
> image in the book!

At the very least, their copyright policy:
   http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=328

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