THANKYOU!!!  Finally SOMEONE understands what I've been trying to convince
everyone of for soooooo long!!!

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/parallax/359/colorblind

Johannes Hubert wrote in message <371999e7.0@news.povray.org>...
>Scott McDonald wrote in message <37193873.8F4B0122@metrolink.com>...
>>Lance Birch wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmm, let me think... It's illegal?
>>>
>>> Personally I hate people that pirate MAX... mainly because it raises the
>>> price for me... and also because I'm sick of seeing terrible work made
>with
>>
>>naw, thats a convenient excuse for Autodesk to charge a ridiculous
>>amount of money for it.
>[snip]
>
>Crap!
>
>This is one of the dumbest but unfortunately most used arguments in the
>discussion about pirate copies.
>
>And it just isn't true!

Post a reply to this message

Johannes Hubert wrote:
> software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
> conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
> have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to

So it's okay if they wouldn't have otherwise been able to buy it?
(Couldn't afford it) It is less irritating to me if a computer user who
couldn't afford to buy a piece of software has a copy illegally than a
wealthy person who just wants to save him/herself a quick buck.

Personally I could be guilty of the above paragraph, I've lost count of
the number of licences of Windows I have, and the number of machines
it's running on. On this note, wasn't it the belgium gov't who had to
give Microsoft a whole lot of money for unlicensed software they were
running?

	Graham.

Post a reply to this message

Johannes Hubert wrote:

> Thomas Lake wrote in message <37199110.D024DB48@home.com>...
> >Bob Hughes wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >> You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
> >> that as being a small thing myself.
> >
> >I meant the distinction between large scale pirating operations for money
> and
> >people cracking programs on their home pc.
>
> The problem with warez ("people cracking programs on their home pc") is not
> that those people are cracking the software - if it was for their own use!
> Usually they don't "crack-to-use" anyway, but just to crack. They are not
> really interested in actually using the cracked software much anyway - which
> means: They wouldn't have bought the software anyway - no harm done!
>
> At the first view!
>
> But what *really* pisses me off is, that those "home pc" crackers (which you
> define as "small") then *publish* the software on warez-sites, making the
> "cracked-for-fun-and-the-determintation-to-show-that-it-can-be-done"
> software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
> conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
> have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to
> those "we-are-in-it-for-the-money" software pirates that you say are bad.
>
> Do you really think that those pirates do their own cracks? Why should they?
> There are enough cracks around done by those oh-so-innocent "home-pc"
> crackers!

Hay ok sorry didn't mean to get anyone angry.

>
>
> Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

There will always be warez software.  If there is copy protection
someone will want to find a way to crack it.  Like with Playstation
games, and finding out how to make the Celeron SMP capable.  I used to
like just trying to find a working copy of programs.  It was all in the
search.  When I obtained a working program I just kept it as a trophy,
until I ran out of diskspace.  Now I search for good freeware programs. 
(Which is harder since there is so much out there.) 

Thomas Lake wrote:
> 
> I was thinking of starting up a small poll on my web site, but I was
> wondering what people in the POV community especially think about this
> subject, Pov-Ray being freeway and all. The poll is: What do you think
> about Warez software? For those that don't know Warez= pirated software.
> I'm not talking about large scale sale a distribution but small scale
> pirating, things like cracked versions of 3D Studio and such. Just
> curious as to what the Pov community thinks. :-)

Post a reply to this message

Many people who crack software never release what they do, and many of those
don't even use the software.  They are hardcore programmers that just love to
figure out how things work.  I know, it sounds strange, but some people think
that the things people do to make an image in POV-Ray is wierd too.

I have heard some people who do it can make money by revealing how they got
around the protection to the companies that make the software - kind of like
hackers that get a job doing computer security.

...but this is all unrelated to warez really, which is a blatant illegal act.
As to how it relates to POV-Ray, well, it doesn't.  POV-Ray is free!  If someone
doesn't think POV-Ray is any good, that's their problem, not ours.

-Mike

Johannes Hubert wrote:

> Thomas Lake wrote in message <37199110.D024DB48@home.com>...
> >Bob Hughes wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >> You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
> >> that as being a small thing myself.
> >
> >I meant the distinction between large scale pirating operations for money
> and
> >people cracking programs on their home pc.
>
> The problem with warez ("people cracking programs on their home pc") is not
> that those people are cracking the software - if it was for their own use!
> Usually they don't "crack-to-use" anyway, but just to crack. They are not
> really interested in actually using the cracked software much anyway - which
> means: They wouldn't have bought the software anyway - no harm done!
>
> At the first view!
>
> But what *really* pisses me off is, that those "home pc" crackers (which you
> define as "small") then *publish* the software on warez-sites, making the
> "cracked-for-fun-and-the-determintation-to-show-that-it-can-be-done"
> software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
> conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
> have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to
> those "we-are-in-it-for-the-money" software pirates that you say are bad.
>
> Do you really think that those pirates do their own cracks? Why should they?
> There are enough cracks around done by those oh-so-innocent "home-pc"
> crackers!
>
> Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Making a Celeron SMP system is in no way comparable to cracking programs.
You can't remarket a Celeron-based SMP system as a Xeon system. It's just
greedy marketing politics, nothing more. Breaking the multiplier lock would
be a better example. It's not illegal per se, but it allows for illegal
remarketing of overclocked processors. Not that I support multiplier (or
bus) locking in any way.

And you mean to say you never used the working warez you DLed? Well, if you
say so. I'm not the one to impugn your integrity :)

Margus

portelli wrote in message <37197A90.CFEDEAE2@pilot.msu.edu>...
>There will always be warez software.  If there is copy protection
>someone will want to find a way to crack it.  Like with Playstation
>games, and finding out how to make the Celeron SMP capable.  I used to
>like just trying to find a working copy of programs.  It was all in the
>search.  When I obtained a working program I just kept it as a trophy,
>until I ran out of diskspace.  Now I search for good freeware programs.
>(Which is harder since there is so much out there.)
>

Post a reply to this message

I dunno were you all come from (I've heard rumors about australia...)
but I'm pretty ashamed to say that in Israel warez-cracks are all very
common, in fact more than 80% of all software is pirated (as of 1995). I
must admit, I'm guilty as well in software piracy (in the past, at
least). However, I made a decision that I would rather use freeware, as
to promote that kind of distribution. I myself have written a couple of
utilities-programs-apps in my recent years, and always distributed them
free. I'm not bragging or something I think it should be done that way,
because I know of many crappy programs, shareware ones, that the author
was to cheap to distribute freely. It's not like he's gonna make a
fortune of it or like he's starving (I suppose...). Anyway, I think that
warez is just a crime like any other petty theft, with the exception
that it doesn't FEEL like a crime, that is, you don't really have to do
anything, so you fool yourself into thinking it's ok.

That's all, and BTW POV is great.

Post a reply to this message

Ya it the same in a sense.  Intel wants you to pay high prices if you
want a SMP system.  If you make your Celeron a SMP system you will pay
magnitudes less for it.  Your right you can't remarket a Celeron as a
Xeon, but how much performance increase do you get for paying 10 times
as much money to buy a true Xeon system.  Not much, or not enough for
the price I should say.  My point was if something can be cracked
someone will do it.  No matter what.  They are not the evil ones, the
people who actually use the pirated software are.

Used it in what way?  No I havn't really.  I admit I had Photoshop on my
computer for a while, but it sucks.  Always crashes.  So I took it off. 
I never used it though, it was the feeling of haveing an expensive
program on my computer.

Margus Ramst wrote:
> 
> Making a Celeron SMP system is in no way comparable to cracking programs.
> You can't remarket a Celeron-based SMP system as a Xeon system. It's just
> greedy marketing politics, nothing more. Breaking the multiplier lock would
> be a better example. It's not illegal per se, but it allows for illegal
> remarketing of overclocked processors. Not that I support multiplier (or
> bus) locking in any way.
> 
> And you mean to say you never used the working warez you DLed? Well, if you
> say so. I'm not the one to impugn your integrity :)
> 
> Margus
> 
> portelli wrote in message <37197A90.CFEDEAE2@pilot.msu.edu>...
> >There will always be warez software.  If there is copy protection
> >someone will want to find a way to crack it.  Like with Playstation
> >games, and finding out how to make the Celeron SMP capable.  I used to
> >like just trying to find a working copy of programs.  It was all in the
> >search.  When I obtained a working program I just kept it as a trophy,
> >until I ran out of diskspace.  Now I search for good freeware programs.
> >(Which is harder since there is so much out there.)
> >

Post a reply to this message

I agree to your point about cracking being inevitable.

    As for the other thig: not letting Intel rip you off _does not_ equal
ripping off Intel. You legally buy a few Celerons. You stick them into a
multi-processor MB. You add a few wires. All nice and legal. You could now
attach it to a industrial power supply and enjoy the fireworks. Stupid - but
stupidity is, unfortunately, legal.
    This is as legal as you proverbial FSB-frequency overclocking, supported
by most motherboards. People are overclocking their Celeron 300 to 450MHz,
getting (very nearly) the same performance as a PII-450, which is 10X more
expensive. Is it fair to say they rip off Intel? In my opinion, no.

    And to claim people who _use_ pirated software are the evil ones - I'd
say that's a bit too simple. When you just crack something, OK, fine. But
when you make it publicly available, you know quite well that people are
gonna use it and the authors are gonna get ripped off. Ergo, you are the
"evil one".
    Although it has been mentioned before, consider this: I will probably
never buy MAX. At least not in the near future. I'd hate to tell you how
many months' average salary it would cost in Estonia. So if I get a pirated
version, who's worse off for it? I am not a potential customer Kinetix would
lose in this deal.
    So I think the culprits are those who crack software _and_ make it
available. They are the ones legal users should be angry at.
    I could continue along the lines of the futility of flaming warez users.
But i have no wish to tread onto that thin ice.

    This concludes tonight's essay about the good and evil of mankind.

Margus

portelli wrote in message <371### [at] pilotmsuedu>...
>Ya it the same in a sense.  Intel wants you to pay high prices if you
>want a SMP system.  If you make your Celeron a SMP system you will pay
>magnitudes less for it.  Your right you can't remarket a Celeron as a
>Xeon, but how much performance increase do you get for paying 10 times
>as much money to buy a true Xeon system.  Not much, or not enough for
>the price I should say.  My point was if something can be cracked
>someone will do it.  No matter what.  They are not the evil ones, the
>people who actually use the pirated software are.
>
>Used it in what way?  No I havn't really.  I admit I had Photoshop on my
>computer for a while, but it sucks.  Always crashes.  So I took it off.
>I never used it though, it was the feeling of haveing an expensive
>program on my computer.
>

Post a reply to this message

Margus Ramst wrote:
>     I could continue along the lines of the futility of flaming warez users.
> But i have no wish to tread onto that thin ice.
> 
>     This concludes tonight's essay about the good and evil of mankind.
> 
> Margus

To all concerned and no one in particular,

  Personaly I don't believe this is the proper forum for this type of
discussion anyway. This topic is both old and is overworked about as much
as using the checker pattern on a plane object in Pov. c.g.r.r. would
be a much better place to move this discussion to so as not to fill this
group with unrelated clutter.

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

Post a reply to this message