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Perhaps this is related to the problem I was having with the degradation of my JPEG
images when
they were posted. I know this this has to do with the way Netscape displays image.
Chris Maryan wrote:
> The problem has shown up in the past and it does not seem to be
> resticted to .png output. I've attached all of the associated files.
>
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > Chris Maryan wrote:
> >
> > > BTW: Anyone know why the background is patchy in the attached .png? It
> > > seems to happen very often in my images.
> >
> > I have never seen that behaviour before in 4 years of using the program.
> > I also have not used the .png file output option and it might be related
> > to that. Another possibility is with all of the default setting that moray
> > has a tendancy to set for you. I use the standard pov defaults except
> > in very rare cases as they keep consistancy from scene to scene.
> >
> > I would like to try rendering your code and see if it manifests itself
> > on my system with tga output. If you provide the rest of the scene file
> > you used such as camera and lighting I will check to see if I can reproduce
> > it and will get back to you with the results. Also If you have moray created
> > ini file I would like to see what's in that as well.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Tyler
> >
> > mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
>
> --
> Chris Maryan
> mailto:cma### [at] geocities com
> ***
> Will work for cash.
> ***
> Email me if you are interested in donating
> to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
> We will also accept donations to the Chris
> needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
> fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: trial_1.INI
> trial_1.INI Type: INI File (application/x-unknown-content-type-*inifile)
> Encoding: base64
>
> Name: trial_1.pov
> trial_1.pov Type: POV-Ray scene file
(application/x-unknown-content-type-POV-Ray.Scene)
> Encoding: base64
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> // Texture Include file.
> //
> // This file was generated for POV-Ray V3.1 by
> // NOTE: Do *NOT* remove the comment lines containing '$MRY$'.
> // To make Moray not re-export the texture, change
> // the '$MRY$' to '$MRX$'.
> //
>
> //
> // ******** TEXTURES *******
> //
>
> // Textures from previous exports [MRY]
>
> // Textures exported in this run [MRY]
>
> // $MRY$: 'T_Wood10'
>
> #declare _auto_name_no_1_ =
> texture // txt_84
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 3.0
> ramp_wave
> scale 0.175
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.3066
> phong_size 0.0
> specular 0.155633
> roughness 0.014533
> }
> }
> texture // txt_85
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 2.8
> ramp_wave
> scale <0.2, 0.2, 0.2>
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> translate <0.0175, 0.0175, 0.0175>
> }
> }
>
> #declare T_Wood10 =
> material // T_Wood10
> {
> texture { _auto_name_no_1_ }
> }
>
> // $MRY$: 'Material1'
>
> #declare Material1 =
> material // Material1
> {
> texture
> {
> pigment
> {
> checker
> color rgb <0.9, 0.9, 0.9>
> color rgb <0.1, 0.1, 0.1>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.301867
> }
> }
> }
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: trial_1.mdl
> trial_1.mdl Type: MorayW Document
(application/x-unknown-content-type-MorayWin.Document)
> Encoding: base64
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I would be willing to try and render the image out of Moray. Just post the
mdl in moray.binaries.
Ken wrote:
> Chris Maryan wrote:
> >
> > The problem has shown up in the past and it does not seem to be
> > resticted to .png output. I've attached all of the associated files.
>
> Chris,
>
> I am happy (sad ?) to report that regardless of what I tried I could
> not repeat the blotchy pattern that you are seeing when rendering the
> same scene. I tried it with the included .ini file, with different
> output image file formats, turned radiosity on and off, tried it
> with the .ini file and the global settings commented out, several
> combinations with and without AA, with the global settings used but
> no ini file, and with both the global settings and the .ini file not
> used. I basically ran out of possible combinations to try to reproduce
> the blotchy appearance but failed at every attempt.
> The only thing I can think of that I did try, but failed because
> I have an older version, is to render the file while inside Moray
> itself. There might be a bug in the way that Moray is working with
> Pov as an external rendering process. You did not mention if this
> behaviour manifests itself when you render directly within Pov and
> have Moray shut down but I suspect you like most Moray users seldom
> use Pov as a stand alone program.
> I would suggest we get another Moray user to try the .mdl file and
> see if they can reproduce the same problem you are seeing. If they
> can duplicate the problem it's time to talk to Lutz about how to
> correct this abhorrent behaviour you are observing.
> You might try to render it directly in Pov to see if the output
> is the same. If you can't reproduce it directly in Pov but it comes
> back in Moray it is something to get worried about.
>
> --
> Ken Tyler
>
> mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
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Thomas Lake wrote:
>
> I would be willing to try and render the image out of Moray. Just post the
> mdl in moray.binaries.
The .mdl is at the bottom of Chris's last message ( the one I responded to).
--
Ken Tyler
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
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Ah yes there it is, my eyes must be going or something. Maybe raytracing too
long.
Ken wrote:
> Thomas Lake wrote:
> >
> > I would be willing to try and render the image out of Moray. Just post the
> > mdl in moray.binaries.
>
> The .mdl is at the bottom of Chris's last message ( the one I responded to).
>
> --
> Ken Tyler
>
> mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
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I downloaded the moray mdl file and tried rendering it on my computer but like
Ken I to could not reproduce this effect. I also tried playing around with the
rendering settings in moray without being able to reproduce it. Perhaps if you
posted the exact settings you used to render the image, including the
radiocity settings.
Chris Maryan wrote:
> Slight improvement with the brightness. I think your diffuse and
> brilliance might be too high, try the default settings of 0.6 and 1.0
> respectively, as for ambient, I find the default of 0.1 to be
> unrealistically low for typical situations, try 0.2-0.3. One of the
> problems seems to be the contrast between the bright and dark parts of
> the image, raising the ambient should fix this. In the example below, a
> subtle highlight really helps the texture (after all, most wood surfaces
> have some degree of polish), look at the specular and roughness
> settings.
>
> I fiddled around with something similar and came up with the attached
> code. Sorry, jpg, just png, I all my conversion programs seem to be
> crashing lately. Mine might be a little too dark. This is the code for
> the wood (based on one of the textures in the Moray library, I added the
> finish settings):
>
> BTW: Anyone know why the background is patchy in the attached .png? It
> seems to happen very often in my images.
>
> #declare _auto_name_no_1_ =
> texture // txt_84
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 3.0
> ramp_wave
> scale 0.175
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.3066
> phong_size 0.0
> specular 0.155633
> roughness 0.014533
> }
> }
> texture // txt_85
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 2.8
> ramp_wave
> scale <0.2, 0.2, 0.2>
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> translate <0.0175, 0.0175, 0.0175>
> }
> }
>
> --
> Chris Maryan
> mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
> ***
> Will work for cash.
> ***
> Email me if you are interested in donating
> to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
> We will also accept donations to the Chris
> needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
> fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image]
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Your default texture has a normal of bumps 0.3, and this is not overridden in
your plane texture. The splotches are caused by this normal. I would remove this
default texture statement, or remove the normal from it.
Chris Maryan wrote:
> The problem has shown up in the past and it does not seem to be
> resticted to .png output. I've attached all of the associated files.
>
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > Chris Maryan wrote:
> >
> > > BTW: Anyone know why the background is patchy in the attached .png? It
> > > seems to happen very often in my images.
> >
> > I have never seen that behaviour before in 4 years of using the program.
> > I also have not used the .png file output option and it might be related
> > to that. Another possibility is with all of the default setting that moray
> > has a tendancy to set for you. I use the standard pov defaults except
> > in very rare cases as they keep consistancy from scene to scene.
> >
> > I would like to try rendering your code and see if it manifests itself
> > on my system with tga output. If you provide the rest of the scene file
> > you used such as camera and lighting I will check to see if I can reproduce
> > it and will get back to you with the results. Also If you have moray created
> > ini file I would like to see what's in that as well.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Tyler
> >
> > mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
>
> --
> Chris Maryan
> mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
> ***
> Will work for cash.
> ***
> Email me if you are interested in donating
> to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
> We will also accept donations to the Chris
> needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
> fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: trial_1.INI
> trial_1.INI Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-inifile
> Encoding: base64
>
> Name: trial_1.pov
> trial_1.pov Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-POV-Ray.Scene
> Encoding: base64
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> // Texture Include file.
> //
> // This file was generated for POV-Ray V3.1 by
> // NOTE: Do *NOT* remove the comment lines containing '$MRY$'.
> // To make Moray not re-export the texture, change
> // the '$MRY$' to '$MRX$'.
> //
>
> //
> // ******** TEXTURES *******
> //
>
> // Textures from previous exports [MRY]
>
> // Textures exported in this run [MRY]
>
> // $MRY$: 'T_Wood10'
>
> #declare _auto_name_no_1_ =
> texture // txt_84
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 3.0
> ramp_wave
> scale 0.175
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.3066
> phong_size 0.0
> specular 0.155633
> roughness 0.014533
> }
> }
> texture // txt_85
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 2.8
> ramp_wave
> scale <0.2, 0.2, 0.2>
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> translate <0.0175, 0.0175, 0.0175>
> }
> }
>
> #declare T_Wood10 =
> material // T_Wood10
> {
> texture { _auto_name_no_1_ }
> }
>
> // $MRY$: 'Material1'
>
> #declare Material1 =
> material // Material1
> {
> texture
> {
> pigment
> {
> checker
> color rgb <0.9, 0.9, 0.9>
> color rgb <0.1, 0.1, 0.1>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.301867
> }
> }
> }
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: trial_1.mdl
> trial_1.mdl Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-MorayWin.Document
> Encoding: base64
Post a reply to this message
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Default texture? Bumps? That would definately explain things but where
is this default texture declared? Also, why doesn't it show up in the
renderings from the polyray plugin for Moray (does polyray even support
bump maps)?
Chris Huff wrote:
>
> Your default texture has a normal of bumps 0.3, and this is not overridden in
> your plane texture. The splotches are caused by this normal. I would remove this
> default texture statement, or remove the normal from it.
>
> Chris Maryan wrote:
>
> > The problem has shown up in the past and it does not seem to be
> > resticted to .png output. I've attached all of the associated files.
--
Chris Maryan
mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
***
Will work for cash.
***
Email me if you are interested in donating
to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
We will also accept donations to the Chris
needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
Post a reply to this message
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Ignore that, I found it. It's in the MorayPov.inc, the standard include
file that gets thrown in with every image. All problems have been
remedied and all is well.
Chris Maryan wrote:
>
> Default texture? Bumps? That would definately explain things but where
> is this default texture declared? Also, why doesn't it show up in the
> renderings from the polyray plugin for Moray (does polyray even support
> bump maps)?
--
Chris Maryan
mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
***
Will work for cash.
***
Email me if you are interested in donating
to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
We will also accept donations to the Chris
needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
Post a reply to this message
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After an in depth study of wood textures (actually fifteen minutes of
trial and error) these points are the points I came up with:
- The lighted area should be bright enough so that it is not grayed out
and details are clearly visible.
- The dark area should have the ambient set so that it is dark enough to
have a good contrast with the light area and brightr enough to show the
details of the texture.
- The border between light and dark should be a gradient, not a definite
change.
- Specular and roughness are very important, for wood, try 0.1 and 0.015
respectively. This corresponds to a highlight on a fairly reflective but
still imperfect surface.
- And finally, because the specular highlight will have a perfect shape
normally, distort it by adding a bumps normal scaled to be minimally
visible in terms of surface shading, but be enough to make the specular
highlight slightly distorted.
Please note that these points work under standard lighting conditions,
changes would have to be made to get this to look right under very
bright conditions.
For the wood texture, these settings worked best and by varying the
global ambient, I was able to get the scene to vary accurately from dim
lighting to harsh outdoor lighting:
Ambient: 0.3
Diffuse: 0.8
Briliance: 1 (anything higher than 1.5 seemed too brilliant, anything
lower than 1.0 caused the line between light and dark to look unnatural)
Specular: 0.1
Roughness: 0.015
normal: bumps 0.1
scaled to <0.1,0.1,0.1>
I hope this has helped all those interested, any coments would be
appreciated.
--
Chris Maryan
mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
***
Will work for cash.
***
Email me if you are interested in donating
to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
We will also accept donations to the Chris
needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
Post a reply to this message
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Chris
Rendered this via Moray, and don't get the blotches.
Steve
Chris Maryan wrote:
>
> The problem has shown up in the past and it does not seem to be
> resticted to .png output. I've attached all of the associated files.
>
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > Chris Maryan wrote:
> >
> > > BTW: Anyone know why the background is patchy in the attached .png? It
> > > seems to happen very often in my images.
> >
> > I have never seen that behaviour before in 4 years of using the program.
> > I also have not used the .png file output option and it might be related
> > to that. Another possibility is with all of the default setting that moray
> > has a tendancy to set for you. I use the standard pov defaults except
> > in very rare cases as they keep consistancy from scene to scene.
> >
> > I would like to try rendering your code and see if it manifests itself
> > on my system with tga output. If you provide the rest of the scene file
> > you used such as camera and lighting I will check to see if I can reproduce
> > it and will get back to you with the results. Also If you have moray created
> > ini file I would like to see what's in that as well.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Tyler
> >
> > mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
>
> --
> Chris Maryan
> mailto:cma### [at] geocitiescom
> ***
> Will work for cash.
> ***
> Email me if you are interested in donating
> to the Chris Maryan needs money fund.
> We will also accept donations to the Chris
> needs a Pentium III or SGI workstation
> fund and the Chris needs a car fund.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: trial_1.INI
> trial_1.INI Type: Configuration Settings
(application/x-unknown-content-type-inifile)
> Encoding: base64
>
> Name: trial_1.pov
> trial_1.pov Type: POV-Ray scene file
(application/x-unknown-content-type-POV-Ray.Scene)
> Encoding: base64
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> // Texture Include file.
> //
> // This file was generated for POV-Ray V3.1 by
> // NOTE: Do *NOT* remove the comment lines containing '$MRY$'.
> // To make Moray not re-export the texture, change
> // the '$MRY$' to '$MRX$'.
> //
>
> //
> // ******** TEXTURES *******
> //
>
> // Textures from previous exports [MRY]
>
> // Textures exported in this run [MRY]
>
> // $MRY$: 'T_Wood10'
>
> #declare _auto_name_no_1_ =
> texture // txt_84
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.9, 0.7, 0.46, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.85, 0.5, 0.0, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 3.0
> ramp_wave
> scale 0.175
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.3066
> phong_size 0.0
> specular 0.155633
> roughness 0.014533
> }
> }
> texture // txt_85
> {
> pigment
> {
> wood
> color_map
> {
> [ 0.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.5 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 0.7 rgbft <0.85, 0.65, 0.4, 0.4, 0.0> ]
> [ 1.0 rgbft <1.0, 0.45, 0.1, 0.8, 0.0> ]
> }
> turbulence 0.02
> octaves 4
> lambda 2.8
> ramp_wave
> scale <0.2, 0.2, 0.2>
> rotate <2.0, 2.0, 0.0>
> translate <0.0175, 0.0175, 0.0175>
> }
> }
>
> #declare T_Wood10 =
> material // T_Wood10
> {
> texture { _auto_name_no_1_ }
> }
>
> // $MRY$: 'Material1'
>
> #declare Material1 =
> material // Material1
> {
> texture
> {
> pigment
> {
> checker
> color rgb <0.9, 0.9, 0.9>
> color rgb <0.1, 0.1, 0.1>
> }
> finish
> {
> ambient 0.301867
> }
> }
> }
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name: trial_1.mdl
> trial_1.mdl Type: AudioRack32 Shell Extension
(application/x-unknown-content-type-ESSPlayList)
> Encoding: base64
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