On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:38:26 +0300, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:54:52 +0300, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> 
>>>  I think it's leaning too much back. Predators lean more forward when
>>> they are ready to attack. That looks like an overly defensive posture,
>>> if not even scared.
>> 
>> Sorry the photo you linked to showed a dog crouching. I thought that was you
>> wanted.
>
>  It is what I wanted. Compare the legs of the dog in the photo and the
>legs in your fox image. The fox is almost laying down, rather than
>crouching, ready to attack.

We continue :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:41:14 EDT, "Reactor" <rea### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> Stephen wrote:
>> > A New Pose
>>
>>   Hmm, still somehow lacks the same feeling as that dog photo:
>>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DvFc1bix9Rs/Rc9tP2jUsLI/AAAAAAAAAB0/dzDVQFV7e9g/s320/dog+2.jpg
>
>The dog is alert, but not in attack posture.  The key is largely the ears:
>forward for calm, out to the sides for alert, and flattened back for
>aggressive.  Anyway, those are nifty models!  Are they yours?  If so, are you
>considering adding them to the object collection?
>

Thanks for the advice. The models are Poser models, I don't really think it
would be appropriate to put them in the object collection. But there is one in
p.b.m and if I can satisfy Warp I'll put that one there too.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:51:32 -0400, Alain <aze### [at] qwertyorg> wrote:


>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:09:56 +0300, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> 
>>> Stephen wrote:
>>>> A New Pose
>>>  Hmm, still somehow lacks the same feeling as that dog photo:
>>>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DvFc1bix9Rs/Rc9tP2jUsLI/AAAAAAAAAB0/dzDVQFV7e9g/s320/dog+2.jpg
>> 
>> 
>> Another couple of poses.
>> 
>> Although I think the tail should be up if it is aggressive.
>> 
>> http://www.ljplus.ru/img2/p/y/pycaky/Chasing-A-Snack-Red-Fox.jpg
>
>That fox chacing a mouse is not agressive. He don't need to be agressive 
>in this case, just quick!
>

How true, but the mouse! Reminds me of the defiance cartoon below.(I don't think
that's the original one)

>Most canines, when agressive are stationary, mouth somewhat open, not 
>fully open, thong totaly inside the mouth, lips pulled to beter show the 
>theet, legs retracted and in a position to beter pounce on the opponent, 
>ears down and back so that they are less exposed, tail straight and low 
>or horizontal.
>
>
I'm having trouble with the stance, a bit. Also there is no parameter dial for a
snarl. Even if there were, you would then see that the model's teeth are feline
not canine. :(
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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The ears were better before, and now the fox is not crouching at all.
I still think you should try to get the pose in that dog photo as
closely as possible. Notice the front legs right below the head, the
head being down compared to the body, ears up.

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"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht 
news:t5ui95pmlnpk6dtj5ja6ftlguc1imkc6dp@4ax.com...
>
> I've not had a dog for over 30 years :(
> The modle is based on a cat's body and I think it shows a bit.
> -- 

lol, yes I guess you are right.

Remember my image "Cathy's World: on the streets"? there were a couple of 
menacing wolfs there. Foxes would probably react identically. There is imo, 
a difference in attitude between a predator ready to pounce on a victim and 
one aggressive to another predator. In the first case, the ears will point 
forwards to hear in addition to see the victim, in the second case the ears 
lie flat back. Also, the attitude should be with the head in line with the 
body in the first case (the better to jump). In the second case that would 
depend on the action under way. When fighting, the sideways presenting of 
the body is done for making oneself bigger (cats are good at that) but other 
attitudes may also be used.

Thomas

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Warp wrote:
>   The ears were better before, and now the fox is not crouching at all.
> I still think you should try to get the pose in that dog photo as
> closely as possible. Notice the front legs right below the head, the
> head being down compared to the body, ears up.

  Just put both photos side-by-side and compare the poses. They are
completely different.

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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:05:35 +0300, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>  The ears were better before, and now the fox is not crouching at all.
>I still think you should try to get the pose in that dog photo as
>closely as possible. Notice the front legs right below the head, the
>head being down compared to the body, ears up.

Right, I'll put the ears back. 
What sort of emotion (which comes with the stance) should the fox be showing?
I think that photo is of a sheepdog who looks intent on controlling sheep. Not
at all aggressive IMO. It is a pity that there is not one from the side.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Remember my image "Cathy's World: on the streets"? there were a couple of 
> menacing wolfs there. Foxes would probably react identically. There is imo, 
> a difference in attitude between a predator ready to pounce on a victim and 
> one aggressive to another predator. In the first case, the ears will point 
> forwards to hear in addition to see the victim, in the second case the ears 
> lie flat back. Also, the attitude should be with the head in line with the 
> body in the first case (the better to jump). In the second case that would 
> depend on the action under way. When fighting, the sideways presenting of 
> the body is done for making oneself bigger (cats are good at that) but other 
> attitudes may also be used.

  I'm looking for a certain pose, not for a certain attitude of the
animal. The pose of the dog in that photo is basically exactly what I'm
looking for, regardless of what is going in inside the brain of the dog.

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Stephen wrote:
> Right, I'll put the ears back. 
> What sort of emotion (which comes with the stance) should the fox be showing?
> I think that photo is of a sheepdog who looks intent on controlling sheep. Not
> at all aggressive IMO. It is a pity that there is not one from the side.

  I'm looking for a certain pose, not for a certain emotion. The "ready
to attack" was just the closest expression I could come up with.

  The dog photo is basically what I want.

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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:12:06 +0200, "Thomas de Groot"
<tDOTdegroot@interDOTnlANOTHERDOTnet> wrote:

>
>Remember my image "Cathy's World: on the streets"? there were a couple of 
>menacing wolfs there. Foxes would probably react identically. There is imo, 
>a difference in attitude between a predator ready to pounce on a victim and 
>one aggressive to another predator. In the first case, the ears will point 
>forwards to hear in addition to see the victim, in the second case the ears 
>lie flat back. Also, the attitude should be with the head in line with the 
>body in the first case (the better to jump). In the second case that would 
>depend on the action under way. When fighting, the sideways presenting of 
>the body is done for making oneself bigger (cats are good at that) but other 
>attitudes may also be used.

That is my problem. The sheep dog in Warp's photo is keeping low so not to spook
the sheep until it needs to go into action. (That famous UK TV series "One man
and his dog")
Warp says that he wants a menacing pose. I'm not too sure what though :(
It's not too difficult to read animal posture but writing it is harder :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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