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So do you mean that you have a heirarchy of transforms, so if you change the arm
transform the hand moves, or are the transforms independant but calculated by
your IK to make sure the parts meet up?
Conventional animation systems have a bone hierarchy, but I'm curious as to
whether it might be worth trying something different. My system at the moment is
too simple to need transforms, it just uses independently positioned joints,
hence the stretchy limbs. A little IK will be the next stage, so I need to start
thinking about hierarchies or whatever...
--
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com
"Greg M. Johnson" <gregj;-)565### [at] aol com> wrote in message
news:40c7d41c$1@news.povray.org...
> This is how I have mine set up:
>
> 1. individual transformations for "thich", "forearm", "head", "toe tip",
> etc.
> 2. The transformations take one from the "default pose" to whatever is
> indicated by other criteria, such as a macro for hand position which then
> drives an IK calc, etc.
> 3. Then the body is constructed. Each element, whether a single sphere in a
> blob construction or a bicibuc patch element, gets built this way:
> Construction_in_default_position texture{Forearmtexture}
> transform{Forearmtransform}.
>
>
>
>
>
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> Opps! Really meant to reply. I don't know how you got such
> naturalistic movement from a stiff legged model. It looks good. To me,
> it seems obvious that you need to add joints and feet.
Well, I realise this perhaps doesn't answer your question, but here's the
animation code:
#declare walkPhase = clock;
someGuy(
//waist
<1-cos(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),cos(4*walkPhase*pi),0>*<.02,.02,0>,
//lwrist
<1+cos(4*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),1-cos(4*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),-sin(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi)
>*<.05,.1,.2>+<.15,-.25,0>,
//rwrist
<-1-cos(4*walkPhase*pi),1-cos(4*walkPhase*pi),-sin(2*walkPhase*pi)>*<.05,.1,.2>+
<-.15,-.25,0>,
//lfoot
<1+sin(2*walkPhase*pi),1-cos(2*walkPhase*pi),-sin(2*walkPhase*pi)>*<.05,.1,.2>+<
.05,-1,0>,
//rfoot
<-1-sin(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),1-cos(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),-sin(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi
)>*<.02,.1,.2>+<-.05,-1,0>
)
Then I just position blocks between those points. Not exactly a general purpose
solution, but sine curves can give pretty natural movement if you don't mind
controlling animation using such an ugly mass of numbers. I definitely think
splines would be an improvement, though I rather like the mathemeatical
simplicity of this aproach.
And I still haven't found time to do any more animation!... maybe I should just
tweak this walk a bit, then clone the guy a load of times and make a marching
army? That's sort of dancing. ish. (apologies in advance if I bring down the
tone of the competition with such a lazy entry!).
--
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com
"Stephen McAvoy" <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
news:2gidc0tukh81srso46qd0ci5retsvsuto6@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 22:32:52 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
> wrote:
>
> > But seriously, any and all suggestions for my character animation attempt
would be
> >much appreciated, as you can see it has a long way to go...
>
> Opps! Really meant to reply. I don't know how you got such
> naturalistic movement from a stiff legged model. It looks good. To me,
> it seems obvious that you need to add joints and feet. But you
> mentioned that already So there is little I can add. (Maybe that's why
> I did not post before) I will wait with interest for further
> developments. Perhaps we can watch him grow up just as we have watched
> Greg's Blobman take its first tottering steps to dancing the night
> away. Staying out late and worrying its good parents :-}
>
>
> Regards
> Stephen
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:27:14 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
wrote:
>Well, I realise this perhaps doesn't answer your question, but here's the
>animation code:
You couldn't answer much more fully. Thanks I'll take some time to
analyse the wibbles and wobbles.
>Then I just position blocks between those points. Not exactly a general purpose
>solution, but sine curves can give pretty natural movement if you don't mind
>controlling animation using such an ugly mass of numbers. I definitely think
>splines would be an improvement, though I rather like the mathemeatical
>simplicity of this aproach.
I think the mass of numbers approach would be quite limiting. You
would have to re-formulate for every new type of motion. Would you
not? IMO, IK is the way to go. Using splines for the end points
> then clone the guy a load of times and make a marching army
Hey! I thought I was being original doing that. :-}
I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
View not a new version :-}
Regards
Stephen
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From: Greg M Johnson
Subject: Re: walking (not dancing). suggestions wanted
Date: 10 Jun 2004 12:26:11
Message: <40c88ba3$1@news.povray.org>
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There is a transformation hierarchy, where if you were to change the elbow
rotation, the fingertips would move accordingly . But I've also got an
optional IK system set up where one could chose an absolute point in space
for the position of the wrist.
"Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote in message
news:40c80a6f@news.povray.org...
> So do you mean that you have a heirarchy of transforms, so if you change
the arm
> transform the hand moves, or are the transforms independant but calculated
by
> your IK to make sure the parts meet up?
>
> Conventional animation systems have a bone hierarchy, but I'm curious as
to
> whether it might be worth trying something different. My system at the
moment is
> too simple to need transforms, it just uses independently positioned
joints,
> hence the stretchy limbs. A little IK will be the next stage, so I need to
start
> thinking about hierarchies or whatever...
>
> --
> Tek
> www.evilsuperbrain.com
>
> "Greg M. Johnson" <gregj;-)565### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
> news:40c7d41c$1@news.povray.org...
> > This is how I have mine set up:
> >
> > 1. individual transformations for "thich", "forearm", "head", "toe tip",
> > etc.
> > 2. The transformations take one from the "default pose" to whatever is
> > indicated by other criteria, such as a macro for hand position which
then
> > drives an IK calc, etc.
> > 3. Then the body is constructed. Each element, whether a single sphere
in a
> > blob construction or a bicibuc patch element, gets built this way:
> > Construction_in_default_position texture{Forearmtexture}
> > transform{Forearmtransform}.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Tek, consider:
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.scene-files/thread/%3C3bd4d693%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=193121&toff=350
(apologies for the hideous URL syntax)
But it's the basic concepts for my MIME Man system. I've been thinking
about "releasing" something close to the latest version, but actually I
think what I shared a few years ago would get you over your immediate next
hump.
Happy tracing.
Greg M. Johnson
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> I think the mass of numbers approach would be quite limiting. You
> would have to re-formulate for every new type of motion. Would you
> not? IMO, IK is the way to go. Using splines for the end points
well IK could be used with this mass of numbers... but you're right that it's
way to restrictive. But it has tought me a lot about the subtleties of the
movement. e.g. he actually moves slightly from side to side as he walks, to
shift his weight onto either foot. It's hardly noticeable from this angle, but
it makes a huge difference to how natural the movement looks.
> I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
> View not a new version :-}
Good for you! I'm close to giving up on this round, I just won't have time. I
was at my "day" job 'til 10pm tonight, and this weekend I'm moving house! If I'm
lucky I might get maybe 20 hours more on this before the deadline :(
Still, I won't give up on the character animation system, I can use that in any
animation.
--
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com
"Stephen McAvoy" <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
news:ksagc0homkhdeb0hqvophbb9ld3lajlkb1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:27:14 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
> wrote:
>
> >Well, I realise this perhaps doesn't answer your question, but here's the
> >animation code:
>
> You couldn't answer much more fully. Thanks I'll take some time to
> analyse the wibbles and wobbles.
>
> >Then I just position blocks between those points. Not exactly a general
purpose
> >solution, but sine curves can give pretty natural movement if you don't mind
> >controlling animation using such an ugly mass of numbers. I definitely think
> >splines would be an improvement, though I rather like the mathemeatical
> >simplicity of this aproach.
>
> I think the mass of numbers approach would be quite limiting. You
> would have to re-formulate for every new type of motion. Would you
> not? IMO, IK is the way to go. Using splines for the end points
>
> > then clone the guy a load of times and make a marching army
>
> Hey! I thought I was being original doing that. :-}
> I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
> View not a new version :-}
>
> Regards
> Stephen
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Woah that's a lot of code!! I'll take a look at it once I'm a bit further along,
but I don't need full IK maths just yet.
I'm very keen to keep my system extremely simple, even at the cost of
versatility. I've seen a few animation systems before (my day job is in computer
games) and they're always huge and complex. I guess I'm just clinging onto this
naive belief that nature (i.e. natural movement) is based on simplicity, and
that a good representation of it should reflect that simplicity.
Not that I'm trying to criticise your work, you're obviously way ahead of me in
terms of animation quality :)
--
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com
"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:web.40c90f4d70c2b1b43a5fb9ba0@news.povray.org...
> Tek, consider:
>
>
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.scene-files/thread/%3C3bd4d693%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=193121&toff=350
>
> (apologies for the hideous URL syntax)
>
> But it's the basic concepts for my MIME Man system. I've been thinking
> about "releasing" something close to the latest version, but actually I
> think what I shared a few years ago would get you over your immediate next
> hump.
>
> Happy tracing.
>
> Greg M. Johnson
>
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:33:10 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
wrote:
>> I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
>> View not a new version :-}
>
>Good for you!
Spoke too soon. Drat!
Regards
Stephen
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"Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote:
> Woah that's a lot of code!!
> ...
> I've seen a few animation systems before (my day job is in
> computer games) and they're always huge and complex. I
> guess I'm just clinging onto this naive belief that nature
> (i.e. natural movement) is based on simplicity, and
> that a good representation of it should reflect that
> simplicity.
>
'sokay.
I'd just say that the user interface can be simplified by stowing away all
the complicated stuff in boxes in the basement. That is, #include files.
Greg M. Johnson
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> So, what I'd like is suggestions on where to go from here.
To animate a human model, Ive used a series or macros thus.
A macro that produces a Hand with its base at <0,0,0>, and accepts a vector
parameter that is the rotation for the hand.
Then a macro for a Forarm with its base at <0,0,0>. It accepts two
vectors, one for forearm rotation and one for hand rotation, the hand macro
is called with the hand rotation parameter, them the hand is translated to
the end of the forearm in a union which it then rotated using the forearm
rotation parameter.
Then a macro for Arm, that creates an upper arm with its base on <0,0,0>.
It accepts three vector parameters, one for shoulder rotation, one for
Forarm Rotation and one for Hand rotation. It calls the Forarm macro,
translates that to the end of the upper arm and rotates the whole by the
shoulder vector.
An so on for arms legs tail etc...
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