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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 21:23:22
Message: <3dd9a09a@news.povray.org>


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Attachments:
Download 'rock03.mpg' (473 KB)

From: Fidel viegas
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 22:22:35
Message: <B9FF5DB9.706F%fidel.viegas@artrecognition.co.uk>
That looks really cool. Just like he says "It Rocks!". p.b.a is getting
interesting everyday.

Keep with the good stuff.

All the best

Fidel.


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From: Peter Popov
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 02:38:18
Message: <ohqjtucgrecue6glnuidrgu2ufj8j725gh@4ax.com>
My only problem is with the guy's apparent IQ, he looks a little
Neanderthal to me. Otherwise, quite amazing work, esp. for blobs.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg


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From: Remco de Korte
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 08:44:04
Message: <3DDA4008.7DDC307B@onwijs.com>
"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
>                  Name: rock03.mpg
>    rock03.mpg    Type: WMPLAYER File (video/x-mpeg2a)
>              Encoding: x-uuencode

Groooovy! ;)

Now, he definitely needs lips.

Peter already mentioned his somewhat prehistoric features, but I
guess that's what makes him a Real Man (tm).

Was it a lot of work to synchronize the movement with the sound
or do you have a way to do that automatically?

Cheers!

Remco


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 09:15:53
Message: <3dda4799@news.povray.org>
"Peter Popov" <pet### [at] vipbg> wrote in message
news:ohqjtucgrecue6glnuidrgu2ufj8j725gh@4ax.com...
> he looks a little Neanderthal to me.
> Otherwise, quite amazing work, esp. for blobs.
>

What exactly would you fix?   The lesson here ladies and gents is to never
use blobs to model a human. You'll spend person-months of sweat in your
basement  tweaking and tweaking that could instead be spent on making
photorealistic scenery or doing actual character animation.

I wasn't too happy with the shape of the face now, either.  Since my last
published version,  I moved the teeth forward to match the position in a
drawing of a human skull. The facial flesh had to move forward as well.  An
earlier version had a flat cylindrical chin and this is a perhaps yukky
attempt to make curvature around the lips.


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 14:53:27
Message: <3dda96b7$3@news.povray.org>
Maybe the solution to the Neanderthalness is to just stay within the lines
of the image I'm using as a rotoscope--you can see the box in the anim.

 IIRC I had moved the frontal face flesh that far out so teeth would not
break the surface as the jaw opened.

LIPS??   I've figured out that Veggie Tales have lips (& mouth) which are a
mere bitmap pasted on the front.  The thought of making a lip on a blob face
that would lend itself to lip-sync voice shapes  just blows my mind.

> Was it a lot of work to synchronize the movement
> with the sound or do you have a way to do that
> automatically?


P O V R A R O X B A B E

It just had twelve phonemes (sp?).  I loaded the sound clip into MainActor
and played the track against an animation of  frame numbers.  After a half
dozen tries I had a frame number for each phoneme.  The mouth is just two
half-cylinders that cut into the face.  On a sheet of paper I figured out
the scaling factors for top & bottom cylinder as a function of frame number.
Then I made a simple linear_spline in pov that incorporated the cylinder
scalars into the x,y,z of a vector.

I don't think I"m too far from my ultimate goal:  a system where I simply
type into pov code:
   "p,o,v,r,o,x,b,a,b,e"
and
    "0,0.15,0.18,0.22,0.25, ..."


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:54:07
Message: <3ddac10f@news.povray.org>
Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> I don't think I"m too far from my ultimate goal:
> a system where I simply type into pov code:
>    "p,o,v,r,o,x,b,a,b,e"
> and
>     "0,0.15,0.18,0.22,0.25, ..."

Have you considered mouth expressions? Like joy, anger, sadness etc. It
is possible to make a system which combines expression keys together
with phoneme keys, which makes a very flexible mouth. You will also
often find, that sometimes you need a phoneme pronounced more strongly
than other times, dependent on how much pressure is put on it. That too
can be done with weighted averages of mouth keys.

Here's how the data looks like in my system - the lip_key() macro takes
the key name, the weighting, and the time value. The lip_store() macro
is similar, except that it stores a key permanently, until it is reset
with the lip_reset() macro. So you can have the same sentence pronounced
with completely different expressions by changing just a single line in
the code.

lip_store("lip_joy",0.3)

lip_key("lip_closed", 1.0, 0.01)
lip_key("lip_closed", 1.0, 2.60)

lip_key("lip_w", 0.6, 2.70) // w
lip_key("lip_ar",0.6, 2.75) // a
lip_key("lip_n", 0.6, 2.80) //  nna

lip_key("lip_p", 0.6, 2.95) // p
lip_key("lip_l", 0.6, 3.00) // l
lip_key("lip_eh",0.6, 3.05) // a
lip_key("lip_iy",0.6, 3.15) // y a
lip_key("lip_r", 0.6, 3.25) //   r
lip_key("lip_ar",0.6, 3.35) //   o
lip_key("lip_w", 0.6, 3.40) //    und with
lip_key("lip_l", 0.6, 3.60) // l
lip_key("lip_ih",1.0, 3.65) // i
lip_key("lip_p", 0.6, 3.70) // p
lip_key("lip_s", 0.6, 3.80) // s
lip_key("lip_y", 0.8, 3.90) // y
lip_key("lip_ng",0.6, 4.00) //  nch

lip_key("lip_a", 1.0, 4.15) // e
lip_key("lip_eh",1.0, 4.30) // h

lip_key("lip_closed", 1.0, 4.55)
lip_key("lip_closed", 1.0, 5.00)

lip_reset()
lip_store("lip_joy",0.6)

lip_key("lip_closed", 1.0, 5.80)
lip_key("lip_closed", 1.0, 6.90)

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
rune|vision:  http://runevision.com (updated Oct 19)
POV-Ray Ring: http://webring.povray.co.uk


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: Re: povray rocks baby (473 kbbu)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:15:13
Message: <3ddb98f1$2@news.povray.org>
With your unique creative flair and sheer overwhelming technical brilliance,
why aren't you entering and winning the IRTC every round?
FORGET 'a background scene full of photorealistic objects' !   Do story
telling against a white foggy background.

Yes, I was thinking about additional "characters" to make frowns, smiles,
etc.

I'm thinking that your system works well as it's based on bicubic patches,
as I remember seeing on your website.

I'm just spinning my wheels right now, trying to decide how to model the
mouth. Even my computer illiterate brother (who rarely looks at any CG) said
it needed lips.  Nothing is coming up that gives me both extant lips and a
scalable mouth shape on a blob.   I guess the criticism is that there should
at least be some shape to the profile around the mouth area, which I think
is a lot easier than a fully working  bicubic-patch-looking mouth system.


"Rune" <run### [at] runevisioncom> wrote in message
news:3ddac10f@news.povray.org...

>
> Here's how the data looks like in my system -
>


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: That'd be too bad, I'd be so sad, I might get mad, I'd call my Dad. (473 kbbu)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 22:42:10
Message: <3ddef912@news.povray.org>
"Greg M. Johnson" <gregj:-)56590@ao:-)l.com> wrote in message
news:3dd9a09a@news.povray.org...
>


I think there may be a lip solution on the horizon some day but not yet.  It
would involve the trace function and a 60-sphere blob; declaring the face,
tracing it and redeclaring it with the lip components added.  Maybe I'll
wait 'till I get a 2.53 GHz box before implementing that one...

I've at least fixed the head.  The solution is that the front of the face &
jaw head are a stack of pancakes, flattened spheres, where the position and
scale are determined by splines.  I'll try to have a more substantial
improvement before posting again.


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Attachments:
Download 'rock15friday2.mpg' (473 KB)

From: Bill DeWitt
Subject: usted!
Date: 23 Nov 2002 07:29:51
Message: <3ddf74bf$1@news.povray.org>


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