> Well, it's rendered in POV, so it 'is' POV at work! Is it wrong to use data
> from another source, and incorporated it into my scene? I do understand what
> you are saying though....
>

That's good. I hoped you wouldn't misunderstand.

>
> > But its really something external, right?
>
> Yes, it's an amazing program that simulates liquid dynamic stuff far better
> than I could ever hope to, as I can't code as well as people like yourself,
> who's work I greatly admire.
>

Why, thank you! But, and I think it isn't pointed out often enough,
it always uses time, patience and HELP to get to know enough
about POV in order to code some useful stuff (macros which
you'd reuse in other scenes, for example). And to that sort of
help you belong, too. If you'd give a little inside information about
how the data was saved...Positions by frame? That sort of stuff
is bothering me in the moment, how to keep track of mesh-vectors,
e.g. for animation, or for particle effects.

> Granted, there are POV purists who would regard anything other than pure
> hand coding to be heresy, and there are others who make use of all the tools
> at their disposal, be they POSER, or MORAY or other peoples particle systems
> etc.
>

When talking about POV-Ray, I think, its heresy to do work on
programs BASED upon POV-Ray and then SELLING it.
But I guess us POVers are gathering quiet a bunch of programmers,
so its just a question of time until some sit together and create a
free modeller which looks cool, is intuitive to use, and as
"expandable" (like macros and such) as POV-Ray itself.

Just my 2 pence worth...

See ya,

--
Tim Nikias
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights/index.html
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde

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Tim Nikias <tim### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Though I do think the animation looks awesome, its, like,
> well, not POV-Ray at work. I mean, you probably had an
> incredible amount of work adjusting the output-file for use
> to POV-Ray, and tracing it all in POV-Ray makes it
> show off POVs qualities as well.
>
> But its really something external, right?

povray is JUST a render engine, nothing more nothing less. it does not
matter what you feed it for the results to be 'POV-Ray at work'.


--
Rick

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He, I knew someone would say that...

I know. But the SDL of POV is capable of
so much and doesn't even need "outside" tools,
though the real modelling is kinda difficult,
you're right on that one.
But for animation of particle effect, like this
magnificient RealFlow animation,I just can't
find as much respect and admiration for as
someone who wrote the particle-system himself,
may it be with POV, or with C++. That's all
I meant.

"Rick [Kitty5]" wrote:

> povray is JUST a render engine, nothing more nothing less. it does not
> matter what you feed it for the results to be 'POV-Ray at work'.

--
Tim Nikias
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights/index.html
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde

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>> povray is JUST a render engine, nothing more nothing less. it does
>> not matter what you feed it for the results to be 'POV-Ray at work'.

> He, I knew someone would say that...
>
> I know. But the SDL of POV is capable of
> so much and doesn't even need "outside" tools,
> though the real modelling is kinda difficult,
> you're right on that one.

I would be happy if the SDL was separated from the render engine, taking the
role of a compiler & feeding povray a binary scene file. (and essentially
making itself optional in the process)


> But for animation of particle effect, like this
> magnificient RealFlow animation,I just can't
> find as much respect and admiration for as
> someone who wrote the particle-system himself,
> may it be with POV, or with C++. That's all
> I meant.

but its the end result that counts, not how much you did/didn't struggle
reinventing the wheel. when someone looks at your image in 6 months time are
they likely to notice (or even care) that you did it the hard way?


--
Rick

Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
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Rick [Kitty5] wrote:
> but its the end result that counts, not how much you
> did/didn't struggle reinventing the wheel.

Of course that's not entirely true. Even if an effort doesn't matter to
others, it can still matter very much to oneself. And the experience
gained by solving a complex task oneself should not be underestimated
either. Using other people's solutions is fine if you're just after a
quick results, but if you intent to challenge yourself and learn from it
in the process, it just isn't the same to use an already existing
solution.

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World:  http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Apr 14)
POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Ring:  http://webring.povray.co.uk

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That's what I mean. If you're not able to write such programms,
I don't complain. But I think its much more awesome if someone
here can say: Look what I have done!

I mean, some complex modellers supply trees, fern, vegetation
etc. When just given a few optional floats and the programm
creates the remaining bit, how much would you appreciate the
work the User has done, rather than the programmer?
Thats what I'm after.

Rune wrote:

> Rick [Kitty5] wrote:
> > but its the end result that counts, not how much you
> > did/didn't struggle reinventing the wheel.
>
> Of course that's not entirely true. Even if an effort doesn't matter to
> others, it can still matter very much to oneself. And the experience
> gained by solving a complex task oneself should not be underestimated
> either. Using other people's solutions is fine if you're just after a
> quick results, but if you intent to challenge yourself and learn from it
> in the process, it just isn't the same to use an already existing
> solution.
>
> Rune

--
Tim Nikias
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights/index.html
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde

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As soon as I can find the time, I am going to attempt my own particle
system. Then I'll be able to hold my head up once more in the POV community.

;-)

Andy

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Hm, just so you know:
I've made some I/O-Macs available on my homepage. Perhaps
you'd need those for a particle-system, but you can always
write your own, of course.

Andrew Cocker wrote:

> As soon as I can find the time, I am going to attempt my own particle
> system. Then I'll be able to hold my head up once more in the POV community.
>
> ;-)
>
> Andy

And your work with RealFlow really is something neat, so no need
to keep your head down...

--
Tim Nikias
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights/index.html
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde

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"Tim Nikias" <tim### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:3CCC00D1.DC61728F@gmx.de...
> Hm, just so you know:
> I've made some I/O-Macs available on my homepage. Perhaps
> you'd need those for a particle-system, but you can always
> write your own, of course.

Yes, I saw, and have downloaded them (although not yet had time to play).
Will certainly be of use to me..

> And your work with RealFlow really is something neat, so no need
> to keep your head down...

;-)

Andy Cocker

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Nice work!

This looks similar to some of the samples on the Realflow website. Though I've
never used it, Realflow appears to be capable of some amazing stuff, but it's
such a pity that it (a) costs more than nothing, and (b) looks like you've got to
jump through hoops to get its output into POV.

I'll stick to my own particle system, and dream of getting close to Realflow
someday :-).

MJL

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