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20 Jul 2024 21:18:45 EDT (-0400)
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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 12 Jun 2000 09:05:58
Message: <3944DF21.615FCDF2@my-dejanews.com>
With four actors, I'm not sure I like the idea of getting it to "anybody else's"
home base.  It seems too much luck to be the one that people push towards.

With FOUR, I think you should shoot for your OWN base. (and perhaps start in a
different place).
With TWO, I think the game makes sense either way, perhaps hitting someone
else's base is AOK.

Rune wrote:

> Here's an example of the output from Push-Ball v1.0.
>
> See povray.general for more information.
>
> You can also download the Push-Ball package from povray.binaries.scene-files
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rune
>
> ---
> Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
> The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
> miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
>
>                     Name: match2.mpg
>    match2.mpg       Type: MPEG Video (video/mpeg)
>                 Encoding: x-uuencode


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 12 Jun 2000 10:02:31
Message: <3944EC63.44996899@my-dejanews.com>
Again, great idea, BUT:

>  pb_goalrot   - Y Rotation of goals relative to bots' initial positions.

What does this mean?

>  pb_power     - The influence each bot has on its own movement.
>  pb_inertia   - The influence inertia has on the bot's movements.
>  pb_vibrate   - How much each bot vibrate (to add a random factor).
>  pb_seednr    - Controls the random initial positions and vibrations.

Ugh, these variables intimidate me!

Q:  how would your algorithm allow some random movement?  How does one declare a
random seed: can it be done locally or can we acces the "global" seed?

Rune wrote:

> Here's an example of the output from Push-Ball v1.0.
>
> You can also download the Push-Ball package from povray.binaries.scene-files
> Greetings,
> Rune
>


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: a few bugs
Date: 12 Jun 2000 10:55:58
Message: <3944F8E7.62D048AB@my-dejanews.com>
1. You should change the name of the orientation variable to Orientation to
remain compatible with multiple versions of pov.
2. I can only run it "once." Thereafter, at frame 1, it's stuck showing me the
last frame of the previous contest. There needs to be some kind of variable
reset somewhere.....

Rune wrote:

> Here's an example of the output from Push-Ball v1.0.
>
> See povray.general for more information.
>
> You can also download the Push-Ball package from povray.binaries.scene-files
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rune
>
> ---
> Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
> The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
> miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
>
>                     Name: match2.mpg
>    match2.mpg       Type: MPEG Video (video/mpeg)
>                 Encoding: x-uuencode


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: a few bugs
Date: 12 Jun 2000 16:10:03
Message: <3945439b@news.povray.org>
Hi Greg!

I really appreciate your interest in this! :-)

> 1. You should change the name of the orientation variable
> to Orientation to remain compatible with multiple versions
> of pov.

OK, I'll do that.

> 2. I can only run it "once." Thereafter, at frame 1, it's
> stuck showing me the last frame of the previous contest.
> There needs to be some kind of variable reset somewhere.....

From the documentation:
"Every time you want to start render a new match, you must
first delete the file "#pb_data.inc". It is only used for
carrying data between frames, and can safely be deleted."

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


Post a reply to this message

From: Rune
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 12 Jun 2000 16:10:05
Message: <3945439d@news.povray.org>
"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> >  pb_goalrot   - Y Rotation of goals relative to bots' initial positions.
>
> What does this mean?

If it is set to 0, then bot X's goal is right behind bot X in the start of
the game.
Bot X must go forward and push the ball away from its goal.

If it is set to 180, then bot X's goal is rotated 180 degrees, so that it is
in the opposite side of the game field in the start of the game. Bot X must
then go around the ball and push the ball back again. This is more
challenging for the bots.

The drawing below may help if they are previewed correctly.
-----------------
         ______
        /      \
       |        |
goal X |X->O    |
       |        |
        \______/
 pb_goalrot 0
-----------------
    goal X
    ______
   / _    \
  | / V    |
  |X  O    |
  |        |
   \______/
 pb_goalrot 90
-----------------
  ______
 / ____ \
| /    \ |
|X  O<-' | goal X
|        |
 \______/
 pb_goalrot 180
-----------------

> >  pb_power     - The influence each bot has on its own movement.
> >  pb_inertia   - The influence inertia has on the bot's movements.
> >  pb_vibrate   - How much each bot vibrate (to add a random factor).
> >  pb_seednr    - Controls the random initial positions and vibrations.
>
> Ugh, these variables intimidate me!

They're not so bad... ;-)

pb_power makes sure that the bots can't change direction or speed faster
than they're allowed to. In real life it takes time for things to change
direction or speed. That's because our own strength/power/force is limited,
and in Push-Ball it's the same. The higher you set pb_power, the quicker the
bots can change direction and speed.

pb_inertia is the amount of inertia. Inertia is a "force" that keeps things
still, or keeps them in movement. In reality, when you push a ball it will
not stop rolling immediately when you stop pushing; it will keep rolling by
itself for a while. A heavier ball will have more inertia. It will be harder
to get in movement, and once it's rolling, it will also be harder to stop it
again.

pb_vibrate is just a feature I added to add a little random element to the
games. If two of the same bots were competing, and there were no random
factor, nothing would happen, and no one would win. With pb_vibrate it is a
little more likely that one of the bots will win, even if they are
identical.

pb_seednr. What's so intimidating about this?

> Q:  how would your algorithm allow some random movement?
> How does one declare a random seed: can it be done locally
> or can we access the "global" seed?

It can be done locally:

#declare MyBotSeed = seed(123);

When I think of it, the bots probably ought to have access to the frame
number, so they could do something like:

#declare MyBotSeed = seed(pb_frame);

That would be the only way to make random events that are different from
frame to frame.

I'll change the rules in the next version, so that the bots may access this
value (pb_frame).

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 12 Jun 2000 16:10:06
Message: <3945439e@news.povray.org>
"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> With four actors, I'm not sure I like the idea of getting it
> to "anybody else's" home base. It seems too much luck to be
> the one that people push towards.
>
> With FOUR, I think you should shoot for your OWN base. (and
> perhaps start in a different place).
>
> With TWO, I think the game makes sense either way, perhaps hitting someone
> else's base is AOK.

OK, in the next version I'll change the game so that each bot should get the
ball in its own goal.

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Jan Walzer
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 12 Jun 2000 18:03:07
Message: <39455e1b@news.povray.org>
> Anyway, thanks for your interest! I hope you will try out
designing your own
> bot :-)
Sure ... sometime, but at the moment I'm a bit stressed with my
studies ...
I'm happy, having enough time to read the groups here, but not
much time for poving...


--

 ,',    Jan Walzer      \V/  http://wa.lzer.net     ,',
',','   student of      >|<  mailto:jan### [at] lzernet ',','
  '   ComputerScience   /A\  +49-177-7403863         '


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From: Pabs
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 13 Jun 2000 03:28:29
Message: <3945E2CD.DEE0E294@hotmail.com>
Rune wrote:

> Here's an example of the output from Push-Ball v1.0.

So the purple ball lost but who won?


Pabs


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From: Pabs
Subject: Hey Rune - The POV Desktop Theme
Date: 13 Jun 2000 03:36:23
Message: <3945E4A6.A345821C@hotmail.com>
Rune wrote:

> ---
> Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
> The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
> miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

The zip file for The POV Desktop Theme seems to be corrupted
<winzip output>
Dll: C:\Program Files\WinZip\WZ32.DLL - 17/10/1998 7:00 am
Testing ...
testing: POV wait.ani             OK
testing: POV busy.ani             OK
testing: POV arrow.cur            OK
testing: POV size we.cur          OK
testing: POV size nesw.cur        OK
testing: POV size ns.cur          OK
testing: POV size nwse.cur        OK
testing: POV no.cur               OK
testing: POV move.cur             OK
Error in file #10:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 17739
Error in file #11:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 17998
Error in file #12:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 18127
Error in file #13:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 18262
Error in file #14:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 18527
Error in file #15:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 19554
Error in file #16:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 376392
Error in file #17:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 377985
Error in file #18:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 381506
Error in file #19:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 444792
Error in file #20:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 448578
Error in file #21:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 451772
Error in file #22:  bad Zip file offset (Error local header signature not
found):  disk #1  offset: 455419
testing: logos.sys                OK
testing: POV help.cur             OK
At least one error was detected in C:/TEMP/povtheme.zip.
</winzip output>


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Push-Ball v1.0 example
Date: 13 Jun 2000 12:11:29
Message: <39465d31@news.povray.org>
"Serge LAROCQUE" wrote:
> Nice ASCII diagrams :-)

Thanks!

> Reminds me of the ASCIImations site I saw somewhere,
> an Australian site I think. The author made an ASCIImation
> of the Star Wars movies. Quite convincing IMHO.

I've seen that too! Can't remember where though.

Greetings,

Rune

--
Updated June 12: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
3D images, include files, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, The POV-Ray Logo Contest,
music, 350+ raytracing jokes, and much more!


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