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I would love to make films useing pov.
A friend is into the sound side of things so it's down to me to make the
video.
I have stories coming out of my ears.
I like coding but my information is alitle out of date. AKA BBC Basic and
6502 / Z80assembler
The documentation in pov seems great all I have to do is to use it.
The people using this news group are a great deal more experanced than me,
so...
Is POV the right package to do this with...
If not Why...
And is DTA the correct paskage to use to put it all together.
And once I have put a scene together shold I then use Adobe Primere to put
it all into one file.
I know this is quite a project but I like long term projects.
Any out there go any help full advise?
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"Divine Wind" <div### [at] blueyonder couk> wrote:
> I would love to make films useing pov.
hi, i have looked into this too.
possible, but a lot of work. appart from building your 3D "world", you need
to make everything move properly. also rendering complex images can take a
lot of time, this is not a problem for animations of 100 frames, but for a
3h movie, you have to use a lot of tricks to get render time down to about
a minute per frame. have a look at the animations at http://www.irtc.org
to see what is typically done with pov-ray. (and of cource here)
> A friend is into the sound side of things so it's down to me to make the
> video.
> I have stories coming out of my ears.
> I like coding but my information is alitle out of date. AKA BBC Basic and
> 6502 / Z80assembler
> The documentation in pov seems great all I have to do is to use it.
basic + assembler + pov-help-files-and-examples should give you little
troble
learning pov-ray code.
> The people using this news group are a great deal more experanced than me,
> so...
> Is POV the right package to do this with...
> If not Why...
You could use something else (like Blender) and save it as pov-ray code,
then use pov-ray for rendering the frames.
> And is DTA the correct paskage to use to put it all together.
> And once I have put a scene together shold I then use Adobe Primere to put
> it all into one file.
sorry don't know what DTA is.
turning thet rendered images into a movie and add the sound is very simple
compared to writing all pov-ray code to render the frames.
most use a simple (free) tool to convert the images into a movie. most of
these tools make it possible to add an audio track later.
> I know this is quite a project but I like long term projects.
> Any out there go any help full advise?
i'm not sure what quality of "film" you are looking for. if what you see in
the
IRTC animation's is what you are looking for, then go for it, but if you are
looking for real-world-looking actors etc, i would say (almost)impossible.
how mutch time (hours) where you thinking about spending on this project?
hope this helps,
Jaap
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The Cunning Plan was to write pov code but what is and where can I get Blend
from.
Live actors is not what I intended but to use pov generated char's.
I have 3 networked computers and I intended to use them. I genrally leave my
computers on 24/7 so I could utlise the idle time.
While this project may take years, it's no diffrent from writting good
software (POV is a great example)so thats ok as this is what Im used to.
DTA is an animation prog that can be got for the pov site. NB it is sharware
so some "consideration" should be given for the author.
Thanks for answering that in it's self is very important and I do thank you
for it.
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sorry for making long replys, but it's just that i planned to do something
similar, but never got the time to do it, and i just felt like sharing.
"Divine Wind" <div### [at] blueyondercouk> wrote:
> The Cunning Plan was to write pov code but what is and where can I get Blend
> from.
i used www.blender.org a long time ago (long before i started to use povray)
it's open source now (thanks to many peaple donating to open it up).
i think blender is more oriented at animations, however the same thing can
be done in povray. if i would start on something like this, i would choose
povray.
> Live actors is not what I intended but to use pov generated char's.
note that real-looking animated characters are very hard to do. in any case
you probably will have to model the "skin surface" in other 3D software,
but most software can export to povray code in some way.
> I have 3 networked computers and I intended to use them. I genrally leave my
> computers on 24/7 so I could utlise the idle time.
what will take most of the time is rendering tests. there are many things
you can do to render tests as fast as possible. like:
-use very simple lighting (only one point light)
-lower resolution
-fewer frames (render only every 4th frame)
-use simple textures
-disable objects you are not interested in at the time.
-use simpler versions of objects
all of this can be automated using pov-ray code, so you can very fast
enable/disable options to test what you want to see, but nothing more.
of source you want to render a few frames at a time to check that things
look
right when everything is enabled.
if you have completed the code for your film, it should be possible to find
volunteers to help rendering the final frames. (i can run povray on about
10 3Ghz/1GB pc's during weekends)
> While this project may take years, it's no diffrent from writting good
> software (POV is a great example)so thats ok as this is what Im used to.
years is realistic. (if you would have said "i need it done next wensday",
then there would be a problem :-)
if i understand it correctly, you will do this on your own (with a little
help form others) so your biggest problem will be that you don't have a lot
of time
making many objects, so you will have to look at using a lot of existing
3D objects and convert them to pov-ray, as well as finding ways to re-use
and objects and generate objects using very little code. (like the povray
tree macro's) The povray language is very powerfull, almost anything can be
done,
including reading and writing files before and after rendering a frame.
warning:
i don't think anyone has come close to making anything coming close to a
"film" using pov-ray. there is no reason why it would not be possible, just
a lot of work. have you looked at the IRTC animations ? (i liked "Star
Jump" 2003)
i started using the lightsys lighting system. it helps getting real-looking
colors, using the spectral curves of all lights and surfaces.
http://www.ignorancia.org/lightsys.php
there are some animation examples bundled with povray. also some of the
IRTC animations come with source code.
also
can convert a list of images to a slight show, that can be set to 50 images
per second, very easy when testing things.
There are one or more(?) povray include files (or macros) to help making
animations, but i never used them. everything in povray animations is based
on the "clock" variable. default it runs from 0.0 to 1.0, but for a 13
seconds "shot" i set it to run from 0.0 to 13.0
i don't know how much you looked into pov-ray animations, but it basically
works like this: the position (or rotation) of moving objects are described
using
the clock variable, like: objects { ... translate <0,0,clock*100> } same for
the camera position, or the point the camera is looking at. for smooth
object and camera moves the usual trick is to define a smooth spline, and
define it to be
13 "long", then you can use the clock variable to specify where an object or
the camera is on the spline.
if you have any questions about povray or povray animations please ask here.
(or mail me at jwstolk=at=gmail=dot=com)
anyone else doing something similar ?
Jaap.
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"Divine Wind" <div### [at] blueyondercouk> wrote:
> The people using this news group are a great deal more experanced than me,
> so...
Yes, the people that post to this site are a fantastic resource. And many
of them have web sites of their own offering valuble tidbits. Check out
Chris Colefax's site at http://www.geocities.com/ccolefax/#IncludeFiles In
particular the Clock Modifier could help a lot. While it's rewarding to be
able to sync complex animations to the clock on your own, you'll have to
learn to store a lot of data in disk files so the current frame knows
what's going on. Things like acceleration and collision detecion become a
lot easier then. I have LightWave 3D and use it often for quick modeling
of my carpentry projects. Still, POV remains my favorite ray-tracing tool,
the SDL is far more intuitive for me than LightWave. Or for that matter
Maya, 3ds max and a lot of the other high dollar packages I get to try out
once in a while. They are powerful and very fast, but I don't have time to
really learn them. Good luck with your project ;)
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The world I have in mind along with all the other things in it including the
charicters was /is going to be done by using simple things to start with.
Char's out of cylinders e.t.c. (Keep It Simple , Stupid) principle. The
keeping each char in one place in the code extract that part of the code to
a faster expermental area then once the char or other object is "improved
then re-enter it back into the main code.
The idea of limiting the render time using a principle of is the object
behind the camera or not, and is there a refelective object infront of the
camera seems to me to be a good idea. Also simplifing the object if it is
small and a large distance off.
My base idea is to creat an island where the story will take place this
means that I will not have to create any other things in the future for the
landscape. This will have to be modified as the storie unfolds.
Thanks for the idea of blender. Where can I get it from?
About the actual animation. is DTA to be found on the POV site a good idea
for the small scenes. Then moving to adobe premier to put the scenes to
gether with a good idea?. Do you (japp) or any one else have any experance
in doing/useing these tools?. If not which ones do you use?
I have sen the IRTC site and am very impressed The Gladiator one is just
great!.
What a great story.
Similar quality to birds, a short from PIXAR, we are trully in great
company.
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"Divine Wind" <div### [at] blueyondercouk> wrote:
> ..... then once the char or other object is "improved
> then re-enter it back into the main code.
This is very easy to do in pov-ray. it is usually don by keeping each object
or groep of objects in seperate files, and then "include" (link to) these
files
from the main file, only the needed parts. but there are other ways to do it
as well.
> The idea of limiting the render time using a principle of is the object
> behind the camera or not, and is there a refelective object infront of the
> camera seems to me to be a good idea.
should not make mutch difference. pov-ray automatically groeps (parts of)
objects into larger blocks. if the whole block is outside the camera view,
pov-ray will skip all parts in that block automatically. pov-ray will also
make this work properly when objects are visable in reflextions.
Typically the only reason for disabeling objects outside the camera view is
when
you run out of memory. (if you run out of memory then you have something
else on your mind, becouse the images will render to slow for an animation
:-)
> Also simplifing the object if it is small and a large distance off.
This is very easy to do in pov-ray: let povray calculate the distance
between
the camera and the object, and select one of the versions, or draw nothing
at
all. for animations, you could also replace distant objects with a flat
bitmap image of the object, and rotate it towards the camera automatically.
(but the shadows will look very strange)
> My base idea is to creat an island where the story will take place this
> means that I will not have to create any other things in the future for the
> landscape. This will have to be modified as the storie unfolds.
>
> Thanks for the idea of blender. Where can I get it from?
www.blender.org (i have not used it in a long time)
> About the actual animation. is DTA to be found on the POV site a good idea
> for the small scenes. Then moving to adobe premier to put the scenes to
> gether with a good idea?. Do you (japp) or any one else have any experance
> in doing/useing these tools?. If not which ones do you use?
i never looked into DTA, anyone else ? (i not a big fan of adobe product, i
usually use some kind of dos/commandlin (and now linux) tool to convert
images
into movies. the free "aviedit" (just google for it) program also works but
can't handle long animations (about 200(?) frames max) "ffempeg" tools work
ok,
there are many discussions about this at povray.binaries.utilities.
i would set up a new "main" povray file for each shot, and include all the
needed objects by adding links to other files. textures are defined in yet
another file. (maybe a file with simple and a file with complicated
textures with the same texture names, so you can link to the file with
simple textures when rendering tests.) the camera movement and the position
of all the moving objects (during the shot) can then be defined in the main
file (for each shot),
while the actual objects are defined in there own file, so you can easaly
re-use the "object" file for other shots.
you can also make special main pov-ray files, that have only a fixed camera
and some simple light and link to a single object, as a tool for when
creating or
changing objects.
you normaly waht to define the camera position at the top of the main
pov-ray file, and include all other files after that. this way you can use
the camera position in all files you include. (like: for calculating the
distance beteen the camera and an object)
This also makes another trick possible: the included files can detect if a
camera position was defined. if not, the included file can dicide to use a
test camer and light. this way you can render the include files on ther own
when
working on the details of an object.
if you use file names like <shot_nr><frame_nr>.png (s001f001.png) then you
can
sort the files alfabetacally and convert them to movie file, but can still
make changes to the length (nuber of frames) of each shot.
(number shots like 10,20,30, so you can insert more shots later)
you can also "edit" the movie after rendering just by renaming the frames of
part of a shot to a different shot.
(i once made a pov-ray file that rendered a black image, but also produced a
dos batch file, that could rename large numbers of images.
it's in povray.binaries.utilities as "pov -> ffmpeg -> ogg theora tool.")
as you can see, povray is very flexible. basically the "script" is run for
each frame of your animation, and the script can make calculations and
decisions for each frame before actually rendering it.
there are many ways to do the same thing in pov-ray. just use what looks
best, and if it does not work, is to hard work, or is to slow, just ask.
ppl here will usually be able to sugest a different way to do the same
thing.
have fun,
jaap.
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have you tried any of these :-)
http://www.povray.org/resources/links/3D_Animation_Utilities/
jaap.
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