Very similar, in fact, to a convolution reverb, which samples the ambience
of a space and applies that to a sound recording, given the recording the
illusion of being in the space.
D.

"Christopher James Huff" <cja### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
news:cja### [at] netplexaussieorg...
> In article <3e205225$1@news.povray.org>,
>  "Mark Hanson" <mar### [at] attbicom> wrote:
>
> > I've been away from playing with Pov-Ray for a few years, so I haven't
heard
> > about this utility. Some of the pictures I've seen in p.b.i. are
stunning --
> > they look like photographs. I'm certainly not looking for advice on how
to
> > use it (I'm back up to the point where I can make a scene with spheres
and
> > boxes without screwing up :-) ), just a sort of basic explanation of
what it
> > is, and how it works. Thanks.
>
> Basically, to make a really realistic scene, it helps for your objects
> to have realistic surroundings and lighting, especially for things like
> reflections. You can construct this environment entirely in the
> computer, having the computer actually simulate the entire scene, but
> this takes memory, computation time, and is difficult or just time
> consuming.
>
> HDRI means High Dynamic Range Image. Usually, image color values are
> percentages, you can have 0%, 100%, and steps in between. Of course, in
> reality, there is no "100% brightness", it is just a compromise for what
> our display devices can show. High dynamic range images store
> intensities instead of percentages, and can store values brighter than
> "white".
>
> An HDRI image can be used to store lighting values for a scene, either
> precomputed ahead of time or taken from a real-world sample. Since the
> lighting values already exist, it doesn't take as long as having the
> actual scenery there, it is easier to set up, and the lighting is more
> realistic than a background from an ordinary image, with color values
> clipped to a small range.
>
> --
> Christopher James Huff <cja### [at] earthlinknet>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~cjameshuff/
> POV-Ray TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
> http://tag.povray.org/

Post a reply to this message

"Christopher James Huff" <cja### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
news:cja### [at] netplexaussieorg...
> An HDRI image can be used to store lighting values for a scene, either
> precomputed ahead of time or taken from a real-world sample. Since the
> lighting values already exist, it doesn't take as long as having the
> actual scenery there, it is easier to set up, and the lighting is more
> realistic than a background from an ordinary image, with color values
> clipped to a small range.

Where does the scene come from? A scene you've already rendered? From
reading a few of the posts in p.b.i., it seemed like they were photographs.
Is that it?

Mark

Post a reply to this message

In article <3e21b1b3$1@news.povray.org>,
 "Mark Hanson" <mar### [at] attbicom> wrote:

> "Christopher James Huff" <cja### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
> news:cja### [at] netplexaussieorg...
> > An HDRI image can be used to store lighting values for a scene, either
> > precomputed ahead of time or taken from a real-world sample. Since the
> > lighting values already exist, it doesn't take as long as having the
> > actual scenery there, it is easier to set up, and the lighting is more
> > realistic than a background from an ordinary image, with color values
> > clipped to a small range.
> 
> Where does the scene come from? A scene you've already rendered? From
> reading a few of the posts in p.b.i., it seemed like they were photographs.
> Is that it?

"either precomputed ahead of time or taken from a real-world sample."

It doesn't really matter where it originally came from...could be 
generated with a high-quality renderer, could be taken from a real-world 
location. If the patch allows POV to output images in that format, you 
could generate the images with POV. Then you would have to do the work 
of setting up the scenery, but you would only have to do that and render 
once, and could use the resulting HDRI map in several other scenes, or 
to make a faster rendering animation. Most HDRI maps seem to be 
real-world samples, probably because there isn't much rendering software 
that can output to those images. I think Radiance can do it, or it might 
just use its own RGBE format.

-- 
Christopher James Huff <cja### [at] earthlinknet>
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjameshuff/
POV-Ray TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
http://tag.povray.org/

Post a reply to this message

You can look for "probes" at various sites that have been mentioned
recently.
D.

"Mark Hanson" <mar### [at] attbicom> wrote in message
news:3e21b1b3$1@news.povray.org...
> "Christopher James Huff" <cja### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
> news:cja### [at] netplexaussieorg...
> > An HDRI image can be used to store lighting values for a scene, either
> > precomputed ahead of time or taken from a real-world sample. Since the
> > lighting values already exist, it doesn't take as long as having the
> > actual scenery there, it is easier to set up, and the lighting is more
> > realistic than a background from an ordinary image, with color values
> > clipped to a small range.
>
> Where does the scene come from? A scene you've already rendered? From
> reading a few of the posts in p.b.i., it seemed like they were
photographs.
> Is that it?
>
> Mark
>
>

Post a reply to this message

What made HDRI make sense to me was the idea/fact that it was "invented" to
allow artificial 3D objects to be placed into a "real" scene.

Have you ever watched a program with CGI in an "real" scene where the CGI
just didn't look quite right, but you couldn't quite put your finger on why?
The likely cause was the improper lighting.  HDRI samples light differently
than, say, a single exposure on a digital camera.  From what I understand,
it does this by having multiple exposures of different lengths.  By doing
this, it can approximate the "real" intensity of the light.  By using this
light data, you can then place 3D objects into a "real" scene and have much
better lighting.

A good example is simply sunlight coming trough a window into a dark room.
On a normal photograph, the window may simply look "white".  However, having
a white piece of paper hanging on the wall does not begin to have the same
effect on lighting as sunlight coming through a window.  If you consider
all-white to be rgb<1,1,1>, then sunlight would be something like
rgb<1000,1000,1000>, but a normal digital photo can only show things in the
range rgb<0,0,0> to rgb<1,1,1>, so you'd lose all of that extra light.

I'm not sure if that made sense or not.  If you're like me, you'll be
driving down the road and suddenly go, "Hey, that makes sense now!"

Good Luck,

Slash

Post a reply to this message

"Slashdolt" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
news:web.3e24683e552627465543301f0@news.povray.org...

<snip>

> I'm not sure if that made sense or not.  If you're like me, you'll be
> driving down the road and suddenly go, "Hey, that makes sense now!"

Well, I'm getting there. HDRI is a way of approximating real-life situations
that Pov-Ray can't do, or can't do well -- I'm thinking events like depth of
focus, glare, sun flares.

Next: is HDRI a program in itself?

Mark

Post a reply to this message

>
>Well, I'm getting there. HDRI is a way of approximating real-life situations
>that Pov-Ray can't do, or can't do well -- I'm thinking events like depth of
>focus, glare, sun flares.
>

Not quite.  It really has to do with one thing only, afaik.  Simply the
lighting.

By allowing some things to be brighter than simply "all-white" it allows you
to insert a 3D object into a "real life" photo, and have the same lighting
in the room as you did when the photo was taken.  To use my "sun coming
thru a window" analogy, your 3D object could actually be "lighted" from
where the sun hits on the far side of the room indirectly, and not just
from the actual light source.

I still don't feel I'm explaining this very well.  Maybe if I said something
like, "To some extent, it's like radiosity coming from a photograph rather
than from a light source bouncing off 3D objects in a completely rendered
scene."

Slash

Post a reply to this message

3e2471fa$1@news.povray.org...

> Well, I'm getting there. HDRI is a way of approximating real-life
situations
> that Pov-Ray can't do, or can't do well -- I'm thinking events like depth
of
> focus, glare, sun flares.

No it's much simpler and limited in scope. Just think of it as a photograph
able to emit bright light. It doesn't add functionality to POV-Ray (it's
possible to have HDRI effects in POV-Ray without a patch), it's just that
HDRI photographs derived from natural environments give very realistic
results when used in 3D pics because they are by definition realistic
(realistic colors AND realistic light intensities). One thing that gives
away images using HDR maps is that the reflection of light sources is not
dimmed on poorly reflective objects (the reflection of a light bulb will be
bright even if the object has refection 0.3).

In fact, here is a basic HDR texture in regular POV-Ray:
texture{
    image_pattern{jpeg "areas_of_light_intensities"}
    texture_map{
        [0 pigment{color White} finish{ambient 0}] // regular White
        [1 pigment{color White} finish{ambient 1000}] // very very bright
White
    }
}

> Next: is HDRI a program in itself?

No, it's a way to store the light intensities with the color pixels. There
are several file formats available (HDR, PIC, TIFF adaptations seem the most
frequent). What MLPOv has is the support for the HDR format. There's a free
program called HDRShop that lets you create and view HDR image though.

G.

--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

Post a reply to this message

Slashdolt wrote:
>>
>
>I still don't feel I'm explaining this very well.  Maybe if I said something
>like, "To some extent, it's like radiosity coming from a photograph rather
>than from a light source bouncing off 3D objects in a completely rendered
>scene."
>
>Slash
>

Well, I haven't tried it yet, so I may be completely wrong, but if I
understand what I've seen here, both in comments and in images, the HRDI
image IS the light source.  That requires an image with higher values than
1.

Best example I can think of is in my frozen moment IRTC entry
(http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/stills/2002-12-31/hang_rg.jpg) I use a
terragen image as a background. I also had to use a lightsource with a fade
power of about 10 to get the light on the foreground to look right, not to
mention the time I spent getting it positioned to look right.  If I had
used an HRDI image I wouldn't have had to add the light source, the HRDI
image would take care of that and it would be right where it belonged.

And that is pretty much what I understand its intended for. Unfortunately,
the patch came out about three days after I submitted it or I probably
would have tried it, since it looks like terragen supports this with a
plug-in... :)

RG

Post a reply to this message

"Slashdolt" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
news:web.3e247766552627465543301f0@news.povray.org...
> >Well, I'm getting there. HDRI is a way of approximating real-life
situations
> >that Pov-Ray can't do, or can't do well -- I'm thinking events like depth
of
> >focus, glare, sun flares.
> >
>
> Not quite.  It really has to do with one thing only, afaik.  Simply the
> lighting.
>
> By allowing some things to be brighter than simply "all-white" it allows
you
> to insert a 3D object into a "real life" photo, and have the same lighting
> in the room as you did when the photo was taken.  To use my "sun coming
> thru a window" analogy, your 3D object could actually be "lighted" from
> where the sun hits on the far side of the room indirectly, and not just
> from the actual light source.
>
> I still don't feel I'm explaining this very well.

No, actually that about did it. I'm rendering a statue in a white room.
There is one light source illuminating the side of the statue the camera is
looking at, meaning the other side is dark. HDRI bounces the light off the
white walls and illuminates (partially) the other side if the statue. Do I
have it now? That's pretty cool.

Mark

Post a reply to this message