This is an great idea, keep the discussion alive!

I also like image a lot! Especially the radios and the grass, which I
think looks just right. And the concept is great!
I'd like to mention the shadows. I think they are a bit long compared to
the overall color/light of the image. To me the sky looks like it's in
the middle of the day, but the shadows looks like they're sometime in
the evening.
And I'd also suggest a camera move. Perhaps moving the location down and
look_at a bit up, to create a more interesting view. It feels a bit
un-balanced to me right now, there's alot of grass (good looking, but
still.. ;) on the bottom half of the image, and the farm and background
is cut of in the top of the image, which is a bit sad.. On the other
hand, you also have to think of what catches the eye of the viewer. What
do you all think?

> Someone also mentioned the grass should be more glossy. I wonder if
the
> color of the sunlight shining on the grass might be the reason the
grass
> appears less glossy. Is the sunlight a yellowish light, or pure white?
I like the color of the grass like it is, it feels darker and fits the
scene good.

> Speaking of which, this is the second winner in a row
> dealing with death...maybe we need a "Funny" round.
Perhaps death touches people deeper than funny things. Anyway, I agree,
a funny topic would be nice

-Peter

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Slashdolt wrote:

>I'm not sure.  Some things look more washed out.  Chris is obviously right
>about the realism, though.
>
>Even if I re-rendered with a brighter sun, I'd probably want to re-work some
>of the textures at this point, which would start a whole new project.  Had I
>known enough to create it like that from scratch, I probably would have done
>so, but I didn't.  Live and learn.

Since you worked so hard to perfect the original image's textures, I'm not
surprised any change would seem less. It does lose the "rich wood" look a
bit, which is a negative, and the dark colors are washed out a little.

>I might adjust the image to make it less dark for the Zazzle poster, though.
>Please see my post in p.o-t.  If you (or anyone else) have any suggestions
>for the poster, let me know.

I've found prints can look darker than onscreen (they lose that "internal
glow" a monitor creates and the color space is smaller), so the lighter
colors may print better. I think your image would look great on matte
paper.

I added a couple of images to Zazzle a few days ago and I've been surprised
at the number of people who have looked at them, and rated them. Looks like
a lively concern.

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Hi.
First of all, congratulations Mr. & Mrs. Dolt.
(wish I had the same support here :-)
And of course, congrats to everyone.
Now the post:


3e831512$1@news.povray.org...
> > I notice one of the comments suggested a radio tower instead of a farm
in
> > the background. I'm not sure that would gain much, and might be a
> > distraction.

IMO a rusty and old radio tower with some falling wires would be a very
good idea. The concept, wich is really great as it is, would be even better.
I don't think that the radio tower should replace the farm. The farm and all
the things in the background, give the "reallity" component to the image,
wich, by the way, is very surrealistic (sure you'll never see a graveyard
like this).

> > Of course the radios themselves are great, and they're so many of them!
I
> > really like the plasticy-wood surface of the radios, very realistic
> > looking, and it gives the image a classy feel.
>
> I spent countless hours working on the textures and finishes. Even so, I'm
> not 100% satisfied.  Maybe 90%.  I'm going from memory, but I believe the
> wood texture was a granite and bozo texture stretched out to look like a
> wood grain.  Then I overlayed a stretched agate pattern on top of that,
for
> the color variation.  I tried using the woods.inc, but eventually
abandoned
> it, and made my own.  Some of them also had turbulence added.  Then I
used,
> "warp {repeat 2*x flip <1,0,0> " to flip-flop the textures to look like
wood
> veneer.

The radios are simply pefect, great modelling, texturing and lightning.
Great idea to make all different and so high detailed.
It's obvious you spent a lot of time working on them..
But I think the contrast with the grass (wich seems a bit dry to me,
at least compared with the one I have where I live), it's too hard.
If the grass would be, perhaps, more glossy, or more green or
would have a less "dusty" look.
Now that I look the image once again I see that the grass behind
the first radio shadow is OK. It's only with the foreground
grass that I get that sensation.

> Some things that went wrong...
> * Lighting:  It's too dark, imho, and I ran out of time before I could
> figure out what to do about it.

Not in my monitor. I don't see it dark (maybe I'll have to check
my monitor...)

> Other thoughts...
> Overall, I tried to do this without using things like Poser, X-frog,
> pre-built models etc.  Probably because I don't own any of those things.
;-)
> But more to the point, since I don't own those things, I wanted to show
> what's possible using just POV-Ray, and a few other simple, mostly free
> tools.  I think some of the scoring may have taken that into account, but
> that's just my feeling.

Sure it's fine to do everything only with pov, but for certain things you
have to be a master. Human modelling is one of those things.
AFAIK, the better works I have seen were made with blobs, and I can
only say that of works made by H.E. Day and Lorenzo Quintana Juez,
though I have to mention Anto Matkovic and Gena with sPatch and
Hamapatch. The man walking the dog in the "other" Gena's Loneliness
entry is fabulous.
I know I can't make that (and even if I could I don't have the time), but
I want a man in my scene. So I use poser. When I have wanted to have
a tree in my scenes, I've used Gilles' Tree or Sonya's Tree. When I've
needed grass, the Gilles one. Lens Flare, a city, a galaxy? Chris Colefax.
I could continue this way but I think you know what I mean.
The goal is to get the image in your brain. I model what I can model
and I try to use the better tool for each. And when there is something
that only can be done with pov, I use pov.
 I hope I haven't started a war flame because of this, my bigger
respect for the people that only use pov and a keyboard. It's
really amazing what you get (JRG keeps me shocked).

> Finally, I'd like to thank my wife, Angela (aka Mrs. Dolt), for supporting
> me on this.  It can get lonely coming home from work and spending the next
5
> hours working on an IRTC entry.  Lonely for both of us.

It's true. Another YKYHBRTTL. Then the prize goes to you both.
Congratulations again.
Bye.

Txemi Jendrix
http://www.txemijendrix.com

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great image!
the only thing i can see could be improved is the radios should be a little
aged or wheathered, and perhaps the shadows are too dark.
The farm is an excellent touch and is perfect just as it is.
The grass is incredible and i like the color it has, the color of the grass
depends a lot in the weather, and this grass matches what i imagine the
weather to be like.
Back to the radios, they are beautiful. And there are so many!

a smart idea, brilliantly executed!
Congratulations!

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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that using Poser was a bad idea.  In fact, I
think just the opposite.  If you really need a realistic person in a scene,
Poser is the way to go.  For some plants, X-frog.  There is no sense
re-inventing the wheel.  Sometimes, however, people use them too much, and
there is very little original work in the scene.  Even so, 100 pre-made
models perfectly placed in a scene can be great (i.e. "The Wet Bird").  I
guess my point was that POV-Ray alone can create impressive things.

I made heavy use of Gilles Tran's grass macros for the grass, corn, and
taller weeds.  In this case, I actually built upon someone else's work,
which is always a positive development.  The corn needs more work, but
looked ok at this resolution.  At one time the grass was actually glossier,
but I felt I had overdone it.  Oh, well.  I'm still on a steep learning
curve.  I worked with what I knew at the time.  Maybe a WIP in p.b.i. would
have helped, or maybe not...

--
Slash

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Slashdolt wrote:

> I've had mixed feelings about the farm myself.  

Don't, its importance to this image cannot be overestimated.  I also 
grew up in a rural area and you have captured the feel very accurately, 
especially a certain claustrophobia that standing corn can create.
> 
> 
> I spent countless hours working on the textures and finishes. 

It shows.


  but I believe the
> wood texture was a granite and bozo texture stretched out to look like a
> wood grain.  Then I overlayed a stretched agate pattern on top of that, for
> the color variation.  I tried using the woods.inc, but eventually abandoned
> it, and made my own.  Some of them also had turbulence added.  Then I used,
> "warp {repeat 2*x flip <1,0,0> " to flip-flop the textures to look like wood
> veneer.
> 

Interesting read how you did it, simple, but sophisticated.


A comment I disagree with is the one criticizing the prominence of the 
fence against the sky.  On the contrary I think it is one of the great 
contributing details of the scene.  Ultimately, one of the ways that the 
juxtaposition of radios and gravestones works is as a kind of vanitas, 
and the gothic points of that fence, undulating across the sky, form an 
intermediate horizon, and a warning to the vain.  It frames the meaning 
perfectly.

Speaking of gothic, one of the things I enjoyed most in this round was 
the way in which the stylistic handling of the images might allude to 
the period of the technology depicted.  It is exciting because it hints 
at a maturation of cg beyond the imprisoning poles of mathematics at one 
end and photography at the other.  This image plays on american gothic 
traditions, underlaid by surrealism, which are rooted in the decades 
just before and during the golden age of radio.  The synthesized 
strangeness of the image: old radios looking like new, popping up as if 
grave markers in a midwestern landscape, is intensified by the realism 
and consistency of detail throughout.  The accurate description of 
distant farm buildings ( suggesting the world of the present ) resonates 
with the poignant, foreground detailing of radio cabinets past.

Another interesting theme that frequented the images of this round, was 
the portrayal of technology whose medium was sound. Necessarily they are 
rendered silent, not only by time, but by the fact that they can only be 
pictured. This image heightens that reference beautifully with the 
allusion to the selence of the cemetary.

In these ways this picture made use of expressive means that the topic 
brought out in competing artists also, but its startling concept takes 
it to another level.

-Jim

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Renderdog wrote:
>Slashdolt wrote:
>>I've posted Radio Graves after being modified with HCREdit, in p.b.i.
>
>I like it even better. What do you think about it?
>


Hmm, seems like a trade-off...  some things, particularly the grass looks
better lighter, but I like the radios darker, and overall I think the
brighter version needs more contrast.

RG

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Jim, Great review. I am finding these detailed comments from others very
enlightening. :-) Bill

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William F. Pokorny wrote:
> Jim, Great review. 

Thanks, it took some effort to for me to try and write down really what 
I thought about the picture, but I think it deserves the attention and 
it was helpful for me to try some writing

I am finding these detailed comments from others very
> enlightening. :-) Bill

Same here, I think this idea is really something that has been missing. 
   I also think that the quality of the work will consistently support 
such discussion.

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"Renderdog" <slo### [at] hiwaaynet> wrote in message
news:web.3e82d9941d77a4af532d6cfc0@news.povray.org...
| To kick things off (see Old Technology...discussions), I'll start
| with the winning image...
|

Excellent render. The idea for the scene is good if for no other reason
than I haven't seen it before. Rather than poignant, I think that a
themelike this is more cleverly surrealist. There is wit behind showing
something in a deceptively obvious, yet not yet expressed way. Many of
Gilles pictures have this same quality, and I would certainly prefer it
over trite sentimentality any day.

One suggestion which I would give for improving the picture would be to
tone down the realism of the grass. With the exception of the near
photo-real grass, the scene has a very nice magazine cover art look to
it.

 -Shay

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