Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:3DC01692.3DF11858@gmx.de...
>
> But this still does not explain what has happened in March-April 2002...
>

Winter? Did Gilles enter under an alias in that round?

 -Shay

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"Norbert Kern" <nor### [at] t-onlinede> wrote in message
news:3dc0146d@news.povray.org...
> This is not the whole truth!
> Gilles phantastic irtc track record is disturbed by this entry:    ;-)
>
> http://www.zenial.nl/irtc/gm_field@24.jpg
>

>
> Norbert

I guess that'll teach him for using a pseudonym.

-tgq

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TinCanMan <Tin### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:3dbeee96@news.povray.org...
> After looking at this link, I did a bit of looking at past IRTCs and
noticed
> a certain person has only entered 5 times.  Can anyone see a trend here?
>

The trend is that Gilles has the desire and smarts to take full advantage of
the lenient rules of the IRTC. I am not aware of another CG competition
which allows the use of third party models and textures. An image like Wet
Bird is the product of likely 1,000+ artist hours when Gilles' time and the
time of those who produced the car models, building photographs, poser maps,
etc. is combined.

The ten to fifteen hours of their own time which another artist typically
puts into an IRTC will not produce an image which can compete with something
like that. Of course, Gilles also has *serious* chops. He is incredible at
texturing, lighting, composition, and even modeling.

Gilles plays the game the way it was meant to be played. More power to him.
I have considered trying to create a competitive IRTC entry in the past
using his methods but just don't have the interest in those techniques to
spend the time required to create a scene that way. I have created a
spectacular landscape image, but am still deciding whether or not to send it
in because the competitive part of me knows that I did not take full
advantage of the rules.

 -Shay

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Shay wrote:
> 
> The trend is that Gilles has the desire and smarts to take full advantage of
> the lenient rules of the IRTC. I am not aware of another CG competition
> which allows the use of third party models and textures.

I disagree about the rules of the IRTC being strange in that concern. 
Already the phrase 'third party models and textures' shows that
disallowing them would be much more artificial. 'third party' implies all
'second parts' things (i.e. things coming with the renderers standard
library) are allowed.  Now some renderers have a large library of meshes
and image maps included (although usually of quite limited quality) while
others have not.

> An image like Wet
> Bird is the product of likely 1,000+ artist hours when Gilles' time and the
> time of those who produced the car models, building photographs, poser maps,
> etc. is combined.

Concerning this specific image i don't think the car models add that much
to the artistic and technical value of the image.  

And apart from that every voter is free to take the use of things not
created by the artist himself into account when voting.  I try to do so,
if the artist did not specify which things are self made i also tend to
lower the scores due to lack of this important information.  None the less
in most outstanding images the elements reused from elsewhere play a
limited role in the overall result and with some experience it's fairly
easy to see if a scene is only some ready-made elements thrown together or
shows artistic and technical ability.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 28 Oct. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:3DC17EFE.134AD00B@gmx.de...
>
>
>
> I disagree about the rules of the IRTC being strange in that concern.
> <snip>

I don't believe that the rules are strange, just lenient. It isn't a
criticism.


>
> Concerning this specific image i don't think the car models add that much
> to the artistic and technical value of the image.
>

No, but they increase the realism and complexity, qualities which past IRTC
results have shown to be extremely important to the voters. All 5 of Gilles
winning entries even had the highest concept scores.


> And apart from that every voter is free to take the use of things not
> created by the artist himself into account when voting.  I try to do so,
> if the artist did not specify which things are self made i also tend to
> lower the scores due to lack of this important information.  None the less
> in most outstanding images the elements reused from elsewhere play a
> limited role in the overall result and with some experience it's fairly
> easy to see if a scene is only some ready-made elements thrown together or
> shows artistic and technical ability.
>

Of course, but even taking those things into account, 1,000 hours of work
make an incredible impression which will heavily influence the scores of
most judges if the comments from past rounds are any indication. I don't
think that Gilles is taking an advantage, rather that the other talented
people entering the competition are handicapping themselves. I do not
believe it likely that this handicap can be overcome. A great image can be
made without these things. Gilles own Eden may be an example. Gilles doesn't
need these things to win, but he will not be beaten again until some other
talented entrant starts taking advantage of every tool available to him.

 -Shay

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"Shay" <sah### [at] simcopartscom> wrote in message news:3dc186fa@news.povray.org...

>Gilles doesn't
> need these things to win, but he will not be beaten again until some other
> talented entrant starts taking advantage of every tool available to him.

    Heh... 'Life' is a competition Shay. You don't use the best tool going for you
to forward yourself in real life?

       At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter with this competition does
it? I see it as fun and tutorial. I would hazard a guess that most people really
hope that Gilles (or any other big names has entered) - *just to see what it is
that they have to do* to get that number one slot like he has so often. So, in
that respect, you're not wrong. I see his Art as a guidance and not a hinderence
in any way.

     Hope you send yours in.

     ~Steve~




>
>  -Shay
>
>

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St. <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:3dc18b38@news.povray.org...
>
>     Heh... 'Life' is a competition Shay. You don't use the best tool going
for you
> to forward yourself in real life?
>

I would never suggest otherwise. I would suggest anyone competing do the
same, *not* the other way around. I think that perhaps I am being
misunderstood on that point.


>        At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter with this
competition does
> it? I see it as fun and tutorial. I would hazard a guess that most people
really
> hope that Gilles (or any other big names has entered) - *just to see what
it is
> that they have to do* to get that number one slot like he has so often.
So, in
> that respect, you're not wrong. I see his Art as a guidance and not a
hinderence
> in any way.
>

I see his art as a guidance as well. Again, I think that I am being
misunderstood. I also always hope that the "big names" enter. I am only
stating that if someone wants to compete at Gilles level then *methodology*
as well as talent and skill will be crucial.

 -Shay

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> But this still does not explain what has happened in March-April 2002...
>
> ;-)


Christoph,

or so.


believing to know every single published image from him).

So please share your knowledge!


Norbert

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just my 2 pennys-worth, but I've always had the impression that Gilles only
enters if his current project matches the current IRTC topic.

jim

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"Shay" <sah### [at] simcopartscom> wrote in message news:3dc18d19$1@news.povray.org...
>
> St. <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:3dc18b38@news.povray.org...
> >
> >     Heh... 'Life' is a competition Shay. You don't use the best tool going
> for you
> > to forward yourself in real life?
> >
>
> I would never suggest otherwise. I would suggest anyone competing do the
> same, *not* the other way around. I think that perhaps I am being
> misunderstood on that point.

    Well, yes, in a text based conversation, it's easy to do sometimes, but I
wrote what I wrote with both comparables in mind just in case and leaned on the
slightly heavier side.  ;)


>
>
> >        At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter with this
> competition does
> > it? I see it as fun and tutorial. I would hazard a guess that most people
> really
> > hope that Gilles (or any other big names has entered) - *just to see what
> it is
> > that they have to do* to get that number one slot like he has so often.
> So, in
> > that respect, you're not wrong. I see his Art as a guidance and not a
> hinderence
> > in any way.
> >
>
> I see his art as a guidance as well. Again, I think that I am being
> misunderstood. I also always hope that the "big names" enter. I am only
> stating that if someone wants to compete at Gilles level then *methodology*
> as well as talent and skill will be crucial.

     Ah. Methodology. A skill in its own right. I think you're right, and I think
it's the crux of the matter in the case of 'this' competition. The thing is,
people want to see skill in whatever form it takes as long as it's legal for the
competition involved.

       But skill is a subjective matter. I have a CG image on my desktop (not by
me), that people almost swoon over when they see it. It's a motorbike, a very
*nice* motorbike. The thing is though, is that I can see all the mistakes, the
scaling mistakes, thickness mistakes, texture mistakes and general mistakes all in
all. I don't dare point them out, but for what it is and the way it looks, I would
say that it would rate fairly high in this comp. if entered.

    Beauty 'is', as always, skin-deep.

      ~Steve~



>
>  -Shay
>
>

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