On 20-2-2009 10:48, Invisible wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Clique -- A close-knit, usually exclusionary, group.
>>
>> Oh. Right.
>>
>> How the heck do you pronounce that?
> 
> Wikipedia claims it's /'kliːk/ (i.e, "kleek"). Obviously Wikipedia is 
> never wrong.

Is that the standard English pronunciation or the standard French, or 
that by Englishmen who tries to imitate the French?

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> Somebody pointed out that a web-based forum forces you to use one specific 
> UI - the web forum. On the other hand, NNTP can be used from *any* 
> suitable client. It can also be easily archived and so forth. Which seems 
> like a valid point to me.

I find the web-based forums I use way better than NNTP.

One of the main advantages is that threads are nicely organised, and if some 
noob starts a new thread asking the same question for the 234234th time it 
gets merged with the existing thread on that subject.  If a thread goes too 
far OT then it gets split into a new thread, similar threads get joined, 
there just seems to be a lot more "housekeeping" than is possible with an 
NNTP server.  This then means that if you want info about how to fix 
splotchy patches in radiosity the info is all there in one thread titled 
"Sticky: How to fix splotchy patches in radiosity" under the "Radiosity" 
sub-group, rather than spread across 867 different threads in 5 different 
groups.

Searching for subjects/posts also seems much more sophisticated on web 
forums, you can easily 1-click to see all threads from a certain user, or 
search within their posts, search for posts made between certain dates, etc. 
Maybe this is possible on NNTP if you have the correct client, I don't know.

Sending private messages to other users is much easier, rather than the 
whole "oh you have to remove the xyzJF# and the notHere77 from my email 
address" palaver.

And of course, you can access a web-based forum from any machine without 
having to install a client (although POV has a web interface for its NNTP 
server).

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>> You needed Google for that? :-P
> 
> You can only know that sort of thing without something like Google if 
> you were born in a certain period or in a certain country or had a 
> certain group of friends and/or any combination of that. For me, I don't 
> think I ever heard of that band, nor that 'song'.
> Yesterday evening and this morning I was listening to songs and music by 
> Hildegard von Bingen. I would not blame you if you don't know who that 
> is. She died a bit before you were born. Then again you might have had 
> the right sort of friends some day. But I am sure there are people here 
> that don't have to resort to Google to estimate how much 'a bit' is.

Heh. Well, as you know, I've never really had "friends". However, that 
particular song spent months at or near the top of the UK charts. Still, 
the tune is probably more memorable than the actual words...

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>> Wikipedia claims it's /'kliːk/ (i.e, "kleek"). Obviously Wikipedia is 
>> never wrong.
> 
> Is that the standard English pronunciation or the standard French, or 
> that by Englishmen who tries to imitate the French?

Wikipedia doesn't specify.

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andrel a écrit :
> On 20-2-2009 10:48, Invisible wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>> Clique -- A close-knit, usually exclusionary, group.
>>>
>>> Oh. Right.
>>>
>>> How the heck do you pronounce that?
>>
>> Wikipedia claims it's /'kliːk/ (i.e, "kleek"). Obviously Wikipedia is 
>> never wrong.
> 
> Is that the standard English pronunciation or the standard French, or 
> that by Englishmen who tries to imitate the French?

In French the i is not really longer than average, the pronunciation is 
/klik/.

-- 
Vincent

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scott wrote:

> I find the web-based forums I use way better than NNTP.
> 
> One of the main advantages is that threads are nicely organised, and if 
> some noob starts a new thread asking the same question for the 234234th 
> time it gets merged with the existing thread on that subject.  If a 
> thread goes too far OT then it gets split into a new thread, similar 
> threads get joined, there just seems to be a lot more "housekeeping" 
> than is possible with an NNTP server.  This then means that if you want 
> info about how to fix splotchy patches in radiosity the info is all 
> there in one thread titled "Sticky: How to fix splotchy patches in 
> radiosity" under the "Radiosity" sub-group, rather than spread across 
> 867 different threads in 5 different groups.

OK. I've never seen that on any web forum, ever. All of the web forums 
I've seen are like NNTP, but more primitive. (E.g., messages are 
"threaded", but purely in the order the messages were posted. You can't 
have branching threads, for example.)

> And of course, you can access a web-based forum from any machine without 
> having to install a client (although POV has a web interface for its 
> NNTP server).

People were quick to point out that the Haskell mailing list can be 
accessed through "gmane", which is web-based. So that makes it OK, 
doesn't it?

(Er, well, no... You still have to subscript to be able to post 
anything. And you still have to actually receive an email before you can 
reply to it; my ISP keeps marking the messages as spam for some unknown 
reason. Also, when you hit reply, by default Thunderbird replies to the 
original sender, not the mailing list.)

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On 20-2-2009 11:00, Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
> andrel a écrit :
>> On 20-2-2009 10:48, Invisible wrote:
>>> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>>> Clique -- A close-knit, usually exclusionary, group.
>>>>
>>>> Oh. Right.
>>>>
>>>> How the heck do you pronounce that?
>>>
>>> Wikipedia claims it's /'kliːk/ (i.e, "kleek"). Obviously Wikipedia is 
>>> never wrong.
>>
>> Is that the standard English pronunciation or the standard French, or 
>> that by Englishmen who tries to imitate the French?
> 
> In French the i is not really longer than average, the pronunciation is 
> /klik/.
> 
Yes, but would an Englishman know?

BTW there is the Dutch word 'kliek' pronounced as the english equivalent 
and meaning the same. I assume they have the same origin. Might it be 
the case that when French was still the lingua franca that the 
pronunciation was somewhat different? I know that Dutch vowels drifted a 
bit. Actually they still do.

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> OK. I've never seen that on any web forum, ever.

Here are a couple of examples of web forums ordered nicely by topics, and 
which actively have threads moved, merged and split and titles changed 
depending on subject:

http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=48872
(an example thread that gets lots of merges, from one of the best-run forums 
I've seen)

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53168
(this one is not quite as good, but still threads like that get merged and 
split depending on subject)

> (Er, well, no... You still have to subscript to be able to post anything. 
> And you still have to actually receive an email before you can reply to 
> it;

Huh? I've never seen that before, all the web forums I use you post in the 
web browser, no need for any email.

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>> (Er, well, no... You still have to subscript to be able to post 
>> anything. And you still have to actually receive an email before you 
>> can reply to it;
> 
> Huh? I've never seen that before, all the web forums I use you post in 
> the web browser, no need for any email.

But that's just it. Gmane isn't a web forum. It's a web interface to a 
mailing list. So while it does fix the problem of *viewing* the list, it 
still doesn't fix the problem of *posting* to it. (And the threading 
seems to be horribly broken - or, more likely, people's mail clients are 
horribly broken...)

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On 20-2-2009 10:58, Invisible wrote:
>>> You needed Google for that? :-P
>>
>> You can only know that sort of thing without something like Google if 
>> you were born in a certain period or in a certain country or had a 
>> certain group of friends and/or any combination of that. For me, I 
>> don't think I ever heard of that band, nor that 'song'.
>> Yesterday evening and this morning I was listening to songs and music 
>> by Hildegard von Bingen. I would not blame you if you don't know who 
>> that is. She died a bit before you were born. Then again you might 
>> have had the right sort of friends some day. But I am sure there are 
>> people here that don't have to resort to Google to estimate how much 
>> 'a bit' is.
> 
> Heh. Well, as you know, I've never really had "friends". 

That is not true. There's a lot of people here that are friend enough 
for this discussion to introduce you to other musical styles. And I 
think they did. Someone also introduced you to organ music.

> However, that 
> particular song spent months at or near the top of the UK charts. Still, 
> the tune is probably more memorable than the actual words...

Probably long after the time when I was still listening to the radio 
regularly. I stopped at the rise of Hiphop and such, when the majority 
of 'songs' on the radio were performed by people that could not play an 
instrument or sing. So my knowledge of popular music is very sketchy 
after, say, 1990.

I see you resisted finding out who Hildegard was. ;)

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