Neeum Zawan wrote:
> a) That there *are* people who want the FD to be privatized.

That's how it worked in the Roman Empire, I understand. The fire department 
would save your house if you sold it to them. They'd stand around arguing 
over the value until you gave in, with the value naturally going down as it 
burned.  (I assume they'd rent it back to you or something.)

I've also encountered volunteer fire departments in small towns that took 
donations. If you didn't donate, they wouldn't put out the fire on your 
house.  I don't think that would work for places like California where it's 
not uncommon for hundreds of houses and hundreds of square miles to burn at 
once.

> https://twitter.com/angrytownhall/status/3445809772

That's great too.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I've also encountered volunteer fire departments in small towns that took 
> donations. If you didn't donate, they wouldn't put out the fire on your 
> house.

  One would think that kind of behavior would be illegal. Kind of collecting
"protection" money.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>   One would think that kind of behavior would be illegal.

Refusing to volunteer to risk your life? I wouldn't think that's illegal.

> Kind of collecting "protection" money.

You're buying protection from the volunteers, yes. But there's a reason 
there's scare quotes around "protection" in your sentence.  In any case, it 
wasn't uncommon, so I don't imagine it was illegal.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:40:08 +0300, Eero Ahonen
<aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> 
>> Phew! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. :)
>> 
>
>You don't know what this life is all about.

Please enlighten me.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> >   One would think that kind of behavior would be illegal.

> Refusing to volunteer to risk your life? I wouldn't think that's illegal.

  You know that's not what I meant. Why are you nitpicking?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>>   One would think that kind of behavior would be illegal.
> 
>> Refusing to volunteer to risk your life? I wouldn't think that's illegal.
> 
>   You know that's not what I meant. Why are you nitpicking?

I'm not. I honestly don't understand why you think not putting out fires you 
haven't been paid to put out would be illegal.  As I said, this is a 
volunteer fire department we're talking about, not a government-paid job.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I'm not. I honestly don't understand why you think not putting out fires you 
> haven't been paid to put out would be illegal.  As I said, this is a 
> volunteer fire department we're talking about, not a government-paid job.

  Because "we will only put out fires for those who pay us" is extortion,
which is illegal in most countries.

  Also, people often die in fires. If someone dies in a fire they refused
to put out because they got no money from them, they let someone die on
purpose even though they could help.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>   Because "we will only put out fires for those who pay us" is extortion,

They're volunteers.  How is it any more extortion than "I will only program 
computers for people who pay me"?

>   Also, people often die in fires. If someone dies in a fire they refused
> to put out because they got no money from them, they let someone die on
> purpose even though they could help.

Yes. I don't think they went that far, altho I do remember hearing a story 
of them showing up at some rich cheap-bastard's house just to watch it burn.
The donation request was something like $10/year or so, so it wasn't like a 
lot of money. But if you were too cheap even for that...

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   Because "we will only put out fires for those who pay us" is extortion,
> 
> They're volunteers.  How is it any more extortion than "I will only 
> program computers for people who pay me"?

Because programming computers is a non-vital operation.  Not putting out 
a fire when you have the capability to do so is deliberately allowing a 
significant portion of a person's life to be destroyed.

>>   Also, people often die in fires. If someone dies in a fire they refused
>> to put out because they got no money from them, they let someone die on
>> purpose even though they could help.
> 
> Yes. I don't think they went that far, altho I do remember hearing a 
> story of them showing up at some rich cheap-bastard's house just to 
> watch it burn.
> The donation request was something like $10/year or so, so it wasn't 
> like a lot of money. But if you were too cheap even for that...

It shouldn't matter.  A group of firefighters going to someone's house 
just to watch it burn down and not help is about as far down the pole of 
being a decent human being as you can get.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

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Tim Cook wrote:
> Because programming computers is a non-vital operation. 

Of course it is. If you have the skills to program computers that run the 
air traffic control, you should do it for free, to prevent possible 
collisions? Manufacturers of air bags should be required to install them in 
your older car for free?

 > Not putting out
> a fire when you have the capability to do so is deliberately allowing a 
> significant portion of a person's life to be destroyed.

Yes it is. So? Not giving a donation to the volunteers puts their life at 
risk, too, as well as the property of everyone else in the community.

So anyone who is capable of saving your property should be required to 
voluntarily do so?  Termite exterminators, for example? Once you're a fire 
fighter, you can never take a different job?  And surely, if someone in your 
city is hungry and you have food in your pantry, you're an awful human 
being, right?

Should the construction worker be required to rebuild your house for free if 
it burns down in spite of the fire fighter's best efforts? Should you be 
required to provide backup services for their digital data if you happen to 
have enough storage space on disks in your house? Should the gardener be 
required to work for free if all your landscaping is dying? Am I beginning 
to sound like I play too much Bioshock? ;-)

How about fires in different towns? Should they be required to drive 30 
miles to go fight fires elsewhere?

It boggles my mind that you see an obligation for volunteers to risk their 
life for you, especially if you're completely unwilling to help even a tiny 
bit. I didn't even take it as a given they'd put out the fire in my house 
when I *did* pay. That's what volunteer *means*.

> It shouldn't matter.  A group of firefighters going to someone's house 
> just to watch it burn down and not help is about as far down the pole of 
> being a decent human being as you can get.

Not paying volunteers $10 to help them buy the equipment and training they 
need to more safely risk their life while saving your million-dollar house 
is also pretty far down on the pole of being a decent human being, I'd say.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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