http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/6128905/Germany-angered-over-legal-ruling-to-allow-Islamist-to-name-son-Jihad.html

Can any germans here explain why the government would give a crap about what 
the kid is named?

I've seen articles about sweedish authorities rejecting kids being named 
completely with punctuation, or 100-digit numbers, or something like that, 
which makes sense if you grant that it has to work in computers nowadays. 
But censoring a name like "Woodstock" or "Peppermint"? Censoring 
non-gender-specific names?

And would Moonunit Zappa have to change her name to be a german citizen?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:45:49 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>And would Moonunit Zappa have to change her name to be a german citizen?

No but she should anyway. ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Am Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:45:49 -0700 schrieb Darren New:

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/6128905/
Germany-angered-over-legal-ruling-to-allow-Islamist-to-name-son-Jihad.html
>

That sounds as if we germans are about to revolt :). Come on telegraph I 
didn't even *read* about it.

> Can any germans here explain why the government would give a crap about
> what the kid is named?

Only if there might be "severe damage" to the child due to the name as 
far as I can tell. You can't name your child Adolf Hitler here.

After a quick wikipedia read it seems, that german authorities are bound 
to the name laws of the origin of the parents of the child not 
necessarily the german name laws.

> 
> I've seen articles about sweedish authorities rejecting kids being named
> completely with punctuation, or 100-digit numbers, or something like
> that, which makes sense if you grant that it has to work in computers
> nowadays. But censoring a name like "Woodstock" or "Peppermint"?
> Censoring non-gender-specific names?
> 
> And would Moonunit Zappa have to change her name to be a german citizen?

I guess if you have the name already its not a problem. Also I don't see 
that that name would be a problem... but than I also don't see the 
restrictions as a big problem...

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Florian Pesth wrote:
> Only if there might be "severe damage" to the child due to the name as 
> far as I can tell. You can't name your child Adolf Hitler here.

I can understand that, as well as the restriction on it having to actually 
have alphabetic characters and such.  The article made it sound like "Sandy" 
would be rejected because you can't tell if it's a guy or a girl. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Florian Pesth schrieb:
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/6128905/
> Germany-angered-over-legal-ruling-to-allow-Islamist-to-name-son-Jihad.html
> 
> That sounds as if we germans are about to revolt :). Come on telegraph I 
> didn't even *read* about it.

It also sounds like the Telegraph is way more intersted in raging about 
the father's background than discussing German naming issues. As if the 
one had anything to do with the other.

In Germany, whether you can name your child Djehad or not has nothing to 
do with whether you're a fanatic islamist suicide bomber, or just a 
secular arabic-speaking mother to whom pregnancy was a "struggle" (which 
appears to be the original meaning of the word "jihad").

Ah, and no - I haven't heard of the whole thing until right now either.

>> Can any germans here explain why the government would give a crap about
>> what the kid is named?
> 
> Only if there might be "severe damage" to the child due to the name as 
> far as I can tell. You can't name your child Adolf Hitler here.

And you can't name a child contrary to its gender, i.e. if a name is 
traditionally used for girls only, you can't name your son thus. Though 
this might be directly connected to the "severe damage" thing: A boy 
named "Sue" isn't really prone to have an easy life...

>> And would Moonunit Zappa have to change her name to be a german citizen?
> 
> I guess if you have the name already its not a problem. Also I don't see 
> that that name would be a problem... but than I also don't see the 
> restrictions as a big problem... 

Absolutely: You can prove you already have that name? You keep that name.

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Darren New schrieb:
> I can understand that, as well as the restriction on it having to 
> actually have alphabetic characters and such.  The article made it sound 
> like "Sandy" would be rejected because you can't tell if it's a guy or a 
> girl. :-)

There are actually German first names that can be used for both. What 
German restrictions do forbid is using an unambiguously female name for 
a boy.

"A boy named Sue" wouldn't be possible in Germany (though that didn't 
stop a German artist to actually make a German version of that song).

Then again, however, it does allow this for middle names, e.g. a boy can 
be named "Klaus Maria" (in fact "Maria" is the most commonly seen middle 
name of this type).

If I'm not mistaken this also allows to work around other German naming 
restrictions; that is, for instance you could name your boy child "Klaus 
Sputnik" if you absolutely want him to be named "Sputnik".

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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 10:05:44 +0200, clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

>And you can't name a child contrary to its gender, i.e. if a name is 
>traditionally used for girls only, you can't name your son thus. Though 
>this might be directly connected to the "severe damage" thing: A boy 
>named "Sue" isn't really prone to have an easy life...

Just out of interest, does German have names that are used for either sex? Like
Lesley or Francis in English.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen schrieb:
> Just out of interest, does German have names that are used for either sex? Like
> Lesley or Francis in English.

Some, yes. Though most of them are either (a) originally shortened forms 
of distinctively male or female names (e.g. "Chris", which could be a 
short form of either "Christoph" or "Christian", but also of 
"Christina", "Christiane" or "Christel"), (b) names "imported" from 
other languages (e.g. "Etienne") or (c) both (e.g. "Sam" could be short 
for either "Samuel" or "Samantha" - or, in recent days, "Samwise" for 
that matter :-) - with only "Samuel" having a significant tradition here 
in Germany to be considered a "German" name [though 70 years ago many 
people would have strongly objected even to that, but that's a totally 
different story].)

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Can any germans here explain why the government would give a crap about what 
> the kid is named?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

  (I'm not German, though.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:04:24 +0200, clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

>Stephen schrieb:
>> Just out of interest, does German have names that are used for either sex? Like
>> Lesley or Francis in English.
>
>Some, yes. Though most of them are either (a) originally shortened forms 
>of distinctively male or female names (e.g. "Chris", which could be a 
>short form of either "Christoph" or "Christian", but also of 
>"Christina", "Christiane" or "Christel"),

We have those too male names with a feminine suffix: Stephen - Stephanie, Paul -
Paula etc.

> (b) names "imported" from 
>other languages (e.g. "Etienne") 

That is something that does not happen very much in the UK. Most "foreign" names
are anglicised except those from the subcontinent or Islamic names where it is
obvious that the people are not natives. I have met a few Africans with names
like "Blessed" or "Joyful" which always raises a smile.

>or (c) both (e.g. "Sam" could be short 
>for either "Samuel" or "Samantha" - or, in recent days, "Samwise" for 
>that matter :-) - with only "Samuel" having a significant tradition here 
>in Germany to be considered a "German" name [though 70 years ago many 
>people would have strongly objected even to that, but that's a totally 
>different story].)

Indeed it is. :)
It is nice to be able to talk about it after all this time. The BBC is running a
series of programmes ATM about events leading up to the war and what happened
during the war. They seem, to me, very open and unbiased especially concerning
what would now be considered war crimes by the allies. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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