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10 Nov 2026 11:02:10 EST (-0500)
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 13 Sep 2010 15:53:14
Message: <4c8e812a$1@news.povray.org>
>> Apparently simply setting
>>
>>   h1 {display: inline;}
>>
>> somehow *doesn't* make <h1> display inline, but if you also make the 
>> following <p> tag inline, the correct result is obtained. I have 
>> absolutely no idea why the hell that works, and whether it works in 
>> all browsers or whether it's just a Firefox bug.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#display-prop
> 
> It's "inline" in relation to previous element.  But h1 in your code has 
> no previous element.  p has h1 as previous element, and thus get inlined 
> next to h1 when it too gets display:inline.

Hmm, so why doesn't the next heading tag get inlined into the previous 
paragraph?

>> (As an aside, IE7 seems totally unable to display this particular 
>> XHTML page at well, which is weird...)
> 
> no, weird is to expect IE to be able to display standards-compliant 
> content.  Sometimes it does, most times doesn't.

It's not that it displays it *wrong*, it just point-blank refuses to 
open it at all. Like it doesn't understand what XHTML is or something...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 13 Sep 2010 15:56:43
Message: <4c8e81fb$1@news.povray.org>
>> Turn off margins on *everything*? Isn't that a little OTT?
> 
> yes, but does exactly what your example needed.
> 
> In any case, it's very common to find that rule in most css files and 
> then specify padding/margin per element in need.

Well, yes, I suppose the other possibility is to override *everything*, 
so that I know that the spacing will be the same on all browsers, so I 
only need to test it on one...

>> Um... JQuery is a library for writing JavaScript. How is that relevant 
>> to building a static web page?
> 
> You wanted a file tree to collapse or expand tree nodes and that is best 
> served on the client via javascript.

Oh, right. I was planning to use JS to expand and collapse the tree, not 
to actually *generate* it.

>> So... you transform the page on the client-side? Why in the name of 
>> God would you do that?
> 
> so you don't need to waste bandwidth?

Not really relevant here.

If you generate a static page, then if JS is unavailable for some 
reason, the tree itself will at least display. You just won't be able to 
collapse it. If you use JS to actually generate the tree, then with no 
JS you see nothing. (And search engines can't index it either, because 
they can't see client-side generated content. Not that *that* is 
particularly relevant for this project either...)

> Think GMail:

I'm not building GMail. Thankfully!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Le Forgeron
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 13 Sep 2010 16:15:16
Message: <4c8e8654$1@news.povray.org>
Le 13/09/2010 21:56, Orchid XP v8 nous fit lire :
>>> Turn off margins on *everything*? Isn't that a little OTT?
>>
>> yes, but does exactly what your example needed.
>>
>> In any case, it's very common to find that rule in most css files and
>> then specify padding/margin per element in need.
> 
> Well, yes, I suppose the other possibility is to override *everything*,
> so that I know that the spacing will be the same on all browsers, so I
> only need to test it on one...

You are far too optimistic.
(and even IE has a glitch mode: the very same document can be rendered
with either the standard html+css or the old html engine... all
triggered by some fancy first line... in doubt, it revert to old engine!)

If you keep feature to minimum, you have hope... but stay away of round
corner, shadows and other "new" things. I guess that even table is a
doomed tag. (and do not ask for fancy bullet in any list...)

And firefox might display an xml document when served by a server, but
not as a file:// (and if the xlt are not on the same server, it won't
allow it!)

And YMMV with each subversion of each browser!


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 13 Sep 2010 17:12:12
Message: <4c8e93ac@news.povray.org>
Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>>> Apparently simply setting
>>>
>>>   h1 {display: inline;}
>>>
>>> somehow *doesn't* make <h1> display inline, but if you also make the 
>>> following <p> tag inline, the correct result is obtained. I have 
>>> absolutely no idea why the hell that works, and whether it works in 
>>> all browsers or whether it's just a Firefox bug.
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#display-prop
>>
>> It's "inline" in relation to previous element.  But h1 in your code 
>> has no previous element.  p has h1 as previous element, and thus get 
>> inlined next to h1 when it too gets display:inline.
> 
> Hmm, so why doesn't the next heading tag get inlined into the previous 
> paragraph?

because paragraphs are display:block by default?

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 13 Sep 2010 17:14:25
Message: <4c8e9431$1@news.povray.org>
Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
> Oh, right. I was planning to use JS to expand and collapse the tree, not 
> to actually *generate* it.
> 
>>> So... you transform the page on the client-side? Why in the name of 
>>> God would you do that?
>>
>> so you don't need to waste bandwidth?
> 
> Not really relevant here.
> 
> If you generate a static page, then if JS is unavailable for some 
> reason, the tree itself will at least display.

I was thinking you were planning to generate a new tree server-side 
everytime the user wanted to expand/collapse the tree.

You indeed can generate the tree server-side.  What's the problem with 
nested ul's again?

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 04:03:20
Message: <4c8f2c48$1@news.povray.org>
On 13/09/2010 10:14 PM, nemesis wrote:

> You indeed can generate the tree server-side. What's the problem with
> nested ul's again?

I want the other columns (e.g., timestamp, attributes, owner, etc.) to 
line up vertically.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 04:04:12
Message: <4c8f2c7c$1@news.povray.org>
>> Hmm, so why doesn't the next heading tag get inlined into the previous
>> paragraph?
>
> because paragraphs are display:block by default?

True - but that still doesn't explain how the spacing is still correct. 
(I.e., there's more space around a heading than there is around a 
paragraph.)


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 04:07:29
Message: <4c8f2d41$1@news.povray.org>
On 13/09/2010 09:15 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:

> You are far too optimistic.

Well that's officially a first! ;-)

> (and even IE has a glitch mode: the very same document can be rendered
> with either the standard html+css or the old html engine... all
> triggered by some fancy first line... in doubt, it revert to old engine!)

Yes, all modern browsers appear to do this. If there's no declaration 
saying what version of HTML/XHTML/XML this document is, the browser goes 
into "quirks mode", where it attempts to emulate the broken behaviour of 
obsolete browsers, which old web pages sometimes depend on. If you put 
in all the proper declarations, you get standards-compliance mode. (And 
if you don't put in those declarations, the W3C validator complains 
bitterly.)

The puzzling thing is that W3C designed it so you can't just write a 
line that says "this is XHTML v1". You have to put in half a dozen lines 
reiterating this information...

> And firefox might display an xml document when served by a server, but
> not as a file:// (and if the xlt are not on the same server, it won't
> allow it!)

So far, Firefox has displayed everything I've asked of it. The same 
cannot be said for IE...


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 06:31:35
Message: <op.vi0p66qlmn4jds@phils>
And lo On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 13:21:32 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>  
did spake thusly:

> OK, here's a couple of little questions that somebody here might know  
> the answer to...
<snip>
> Is there some way I can style it so that it shows up more like
>
>    Introduction
>    (Show/hide)
>
>
>    ...real content...

.h1 {margin-bottom:0}

> or even
>
>    Introduction (Show/hide)
>
>
>    ...real content...

As nemesis states
  .h1 {display: inline}

> If so, how do I do it?
>
>
>
> 2. I want to build a file tree where you can collapse or expand tree  
> nodes. The obvious way to do this is with the <ul> element. However, I  
> also want each file to have attributes, a creation date, and so forth,  
> and all these columns should line up vertically. The obvious way to do  
> that is with a table. But it can't be a table and a list at the same  
> time!
>
> I could use nested tables I suppose, but nested tables are EVIL! Is  
> there some more semantically-transparent way that I can do this?
>
>    Root                               2009-09-12  Ahsc
>      Resources                        2009-09-10  Ahsc
>        Main.css                       2009-09-10  Ahsc
>        Main.js                        2009-09-10  Ahsc
>      Packages                         2009-09-12  Ahsc
>        ansi-terminal                  2009-09-12  Ahsc
>    ...

Other than using absolute positioning why not:


<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<style>
ul, li {list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;}
span {width: 100px; display:inline-block;}
.indent{margin-left: 100px;}
.col1 {margin-left: 200px;}
.col2 {margin-left: 100px;}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<ul>
	<li><span>Root</span><span  
class="col1">2009-09-12</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
		<ul class="indent">
			<li><span>Resources</span><span  
class="col2">2009-09-10</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
			<ul class="indent">
				<li><span>Main.css</span><span>2009-09-10</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
				<li><span>Main.js</span><span>2009-09-10</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
			</ul>
			<li><span>Packages</span><span  
class="col2">2009-09-12</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
			<ul class="indent">
				<li><span>ansi-terminal</span><span>2009-09-12</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
			</ul>
		</ul>
</ul>
</body>
</html>

Works in IE7, Firefox, Opera and Chrome. I mean technically you don't need  
the ul li as you're indenting manually, but it does keep it tidy both in  
code and for text readers.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 07:33:06
Message: <4c8f5d72$1@news.povray.org>
>> Is there some way I can style it so that it shows up more like
>>
>> Introduction
>> (Show/hide)
>>
>>
>> ...real content...
>
> .h1 {margin-bottom:0}

Wouldn't that mean that the margin between the header and the real 
content would now be incorrect?

>> or even
>>
>> Introduction (Show/hide)
>>
>>
>> ...real content...
>
> As nemesis states
> .h1 {display: inline}

Yeah, that's what I went with ultimately.

> Other than using absolute positioning why not:
>
>
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
> <head>
> <style>
> ul, li {list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;}
> span {width: 100px; display:inline-block;}
> .indent{margin-left: 100px;}
> .col1 {margin-left: 200px;}
> .col2 {margin-left: 100px;}
> </style>
> </head>
> <body>
> <ul>
> <li><span>Root</span><span
> class="col1">2009-09-12</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
> <ul class="indent">
> <li><span>Resources</span><span
> class="col2">2009-09-10</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
> <ul class="indent">
> <li><span>Main.css</span><span>2009-09-10</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
> <li><span>Main.js</span><span>2009-09-10</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
> </ul>
> <li><span>Packages</span><span
> class="col2">2009-09-12</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
> <ul class="indent">
> <li><span>ansi-terminal</span><span>2009-09-12</span><span>Ahsc</span></li>
> </ul>
> </ul>
> </ul>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> Works in IE7, Firefox, Opera and Chrome. I mean technically you don't
> need the ul li as you're indenting manually, but it does keep it tidy
> both in code and for text readers.

I always try to design my pages so that if you totally disable all CSS, 
it still displays sensibly. It might not be pretty, but it's readable. 
Then I apply CSS to make it pretty.

Not sure you need to use ".indent"; why not just "li ul" or something?

Anyway, absolute positioning seems to work fine, but for the minor 
detail that I need to figure out how wide the columns are supposed to be...

Also, whenever I try to open an XHTML document in IE (v7), it asks me 
what application I want to use it open it with, and defaults to Firefox. 
I can't seem to convince it to open it. The best I can do is get it to 
display a blank page.


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From: Francois Labreque
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 08:47:49
Message: <4c8f6ef5$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2010-09-14 04:04, Invisible a écrit :
>>> Hmm, so why doesn't the next heading tag get inlined into the previous
>>> paragraph?
>>
>> because paragraphs are display:block by default?
>
> True - but that still doesn't explain how the spacing is still correct.
> (I.e., there's more space around a heading than there is around a
> paragraph.)

Because both <h1>'s and <p>'s margin-top and margin-bottom are 1ex; in 
height, but since usually <h1> uses a bigger font, its margin will be 
bigger.

-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 12:15:36
Message: <op.vi054jw4mn4jds@phils>
And lo On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:33:05 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> Is there some way I can style it so that it shows up more like
>>>
>>> Introduction
>>> (Show/hide)
>>>
>>>
>>> ...real content...
>>
>> .h1 {margin-bottom:0}
>
> Wouldn't that mean that the margin between the header and the real  
> content would now be incorrect?

Should still conform to line-height
<snip>

> I always try to design my pages so that if you totally disable all CSS,  
> it still displays sensibly. It might not be pretty, but it's readable.  
> Then I apply CSS to make it pretty.
>
> Not sure you need to use ".indent"; why not just "li ul" or something?

Because the first ul isn't indented and it allows you to create an extra  
indent for a third level if needed without messing with child indicators  
that IE doesn't understand.

> Anyway, absolute positioning seems to work fine, but for the minor  
> detail that I need to figure out how wide the columns are supposed to  
> be...

I try to avoid absolute positioning when possible, just because it takes  
things out of the flow. if I have to use it I ensure it's well-wrapped,  
but even then there can be some glitches where the positioning relates to  
the first parent that specifies a position rather than its container.

> Also, whenever I try to open an XHTML document in IE (v7), it asks me  
> what application I want to use it open it with, and defaults to Firefox.  
> I can't seem to convince it to open it. The best I can do is get it to  
> display a blank page.

Well I know they separated out online and offline content between two  
windows, perhaps its related to that?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 13:22:43
Message: <4c8faf63$1@news.povray.org>
>>> .h1 {margin-bottom:0}
>>
>> Wouldn't that mean that the margin between the header and the real
>> content would now be incorrect?
>
> Should still conform to line-height
> <snip>

I didn't think inline elements could have margins?

>> Not sure you need to use ".indent"; why not just "li ul" or something?
>
> Because the first ul isn't indented and it allows you to create an extra
> indent for a third level if needed without messing with child indicators
> that IE doesn't understand.

Ah. So the answer to "why not use child selectors" is simply "IE doesn't 
understand child selectors"? Oh I *so* don't give a damn. :-P

>> Anyway, absolute positioning seems to work fine, but for the minor
>> detail that I need to figure out how wide the columns are supposed to
>> be...
>
> I try to avoid absolute positioning when possible, just because it takes
> things out of the flow. if I have to use it I ensure it's well-wrapped,
> but even then there can be some glitches where the positioning relates
> to the first parent that specifies a position rather than its container.

Yeah, it looks like styling this correctly is going to be fun... Still, 
at this point, I'm still getting the page content to be generated 
correctly. Assuming I tag enough stuff, it should be possible to fiddle 
with the CSS later.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 14 Sep 2010 13:55:17
Message: <4c8fb705$1@news.povray.org>
Invisible escreveu:
> On 13/09/2010 10:14 PM, nemesis wrote:
> 
>> You indeed can generate the tree server-side. What's the problem with
>> nested ul's again?
> 
> I want the other columns (e.g., timestamp, attributes, owner, etc.) to 
> line up vertically.

see Phill Cook's reply

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 15 Sep 2010 04:03:32
Message: <op.vi2d0ggcmn4jds@phils>
And lo On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:22:43 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>  
did spake thusly:

>>>> .h1 {margin-bottom:0}
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that mean that the margin between the header and the real
>>> content would now be incorrect?
>>
>> Should still conform to line-height
>> <snip>
>
> I didn't think inline elements could have margins?

No it's just that the default is 0 for inline elements but some differ.

>>> Not sure you need to use ".indent"; why not just "li ul" or something?
>>
>> Because the first ul isn't indented and it allows you to create an extra
>> indent for a third level if needed without messing with child indicators
>> that IE doesn't understand.
>
> Ah. So the answer to "why not use child selectors" is simply "IE doesn't  
> understand child selectors"? Oh I *so* don't give a damn. :-P

Ah well they do work for IE7 so ul>ul would have been neater.

>>> Anyway, absolute positioning seems to work fine, but for the minor
>>> detail that I need to figure out how wide the columns are supposed to
>>> be...
>>
>> I try to avoid absolute positioning when possible, just because it takes
>> things out of the flow. if I have to use it I ensure it's well-wrapped,
>> but even then there can be some glitches where the positioning relates
>> to the first parent that specifies a position rather than its container.
>
> Yeah, it looks like styling this correctly is going to be fun... Still,  
> at this point, I'm still getting the page content to be generated  
> correctly. Assuming I tag enough stuff, it should be possible to fiddle  
> with the CSS later.

Well the benefit to the way I've done it is that it keeps the flow. That  
is the third column will be positioned by default behind the second column  
with no extra styling so you only need to set the sizes to indent+width  
for everything to line up.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 21 Sep 2010 16:59:14
Message: <4c991ca2$1@news.povray.org>
On 12/09/2010 01:21 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> 2. I want to build a file tree where you can collapse or expand tree
> nodes. The obvious way to do this is with the <ul> element. However, I
> also want each file to have attributes, a creation date, and so forth,
> and all these columns should line up vertically. The obvious way to do
> that is with a table. But it can't be a table and a list at the same time!
>
> I could use nested tables I suppose, but nested tables are EVIL! Is
> there some more semantically-transparent way that I can do this?
>
> Root 2009-09-12 Ahsc
> Resources 2009-09-10 Ahsc
> Main.css 2009-09-10 Ahsc
> Main.js 2009-09-10 Ahsc
> Packages 2009-09-12 Ahsc
> ansi-terminal 2009-09-12 Ahsc
> ...

Facepalm moment: Using CSS, you can render any element AS A TABLE! >_<

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 05:14:24
Message: <op.vjffyfepmn4jds@phils>
And lo On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:59:13 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>  
did spake thusly:

> On 12/09/2010 01:21 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> 2. I want to build a file tree where you can collapse or expand tree
>> nodes. The obvious way to do this is with the <ul> element. However, I
>> also want each file to have attributes, a creation date, and so forth,
>> and all these columns should line up vertically. The obvious way to do
>> that is with a table. But it can't be a table and a list at the same  
>> time!
>>
>> I could use nested tables I suppose, but nested tables are EVIL! Is
>> there some more semantically-transparent way that I can do this?
>>
>> Root 2009-09-12 Ahsc
>> Resources 2009-09-10 Ahsc
>> Main.css 2009-09-10 Ahsc
>> Main.js 2009-09-10 Ahsc
>> Packages 2009-09-12 Ahsc
>> ansi-terminal 2009-09-12 Ahsc
>> ...
>
> Facepalm moment: Using CSS, you can render any element AS A TABLE! >_<

Well yeah that was going to be my first response, but you wanted the  
columns offset within rows and that would have ended up just as messy as  
absolute positioning.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 05:35:10
Message: <4c99cdce@news.povray.org>
>> Facepalm moment: Using CSS, you can render any element AS A TABLE! >_<
>
> Well yeah that was going to be my first response, but you wanted the
> columns offset within rows and that would have ended up just as messy as
> absolute positioning.

Well, I can make it so that a <ul> who's <li> elements contain multiple 
<span> tags gets rendered as a regular table. What I *cannot* do is make 
nested <ul> elements render correctly. Not for love nor money.

I can, however, take a <table> and annotate each <tr> with a style class 
indicating how far to indent it, and get a result that looks exactly 
like what I want.

So I have a choice here: The information I want to present is 
semantically tabular *and* hierarchical. I can mark it up as <ul> (which 
lets be expose the hierarchy but hides the tabular nature in <span> 
tags), or I can mark it up as <table> (which exposes the tabular 
structure but hides the hierarchy in style class declarations).

I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me actually 
achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil. OTOH, my 
data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't that much of 
a hack.


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 05:50:08
Message: <op.vjfhl0s3mn4jds@phils>
And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:35:08 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me actually  
> achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil. OTOH, my  
> data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't that much of  
> a hack.

Well yeah if it's tabular data present it in a table nothing evil about  
that well unless you're going to use nested tables just for display  
purposes that's frowned upon; and if you're not then you're going to have  
to style every single cell and that's just messy.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 05:52:31
Message: <4c99d1df$1@news.povray.org>
On 22/09/2010 10:50 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:35:08 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
> spake thusly:
>
>> I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me
>> actually achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil.
>> OTOH, my data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't
>> that much of a hack.
>
> Well yeah if it's tabular data present it in a table nothing evil about
> that well unless you're going to use nested tables just for display
> purposes that's frowned upon; and if you're not then you're going to
> have to style every single cell and that's just messy.

Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style 
every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating 
colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And since 
the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 06:02:21
Message: <4c99d42d$1@news.povray.org>
On 22/09/2010 10:52 AM, Invisible wrote:

> Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style
> every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating
> colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And since
> the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...

Only remaining problem is how to expand/collapse subtrees (now that a 
subtree isn't a single XML element any more). I'm sure it's solvable.


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 06:04:38
Message: <op.vjfh96rsmn4jds@phils>
And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:52:30 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> On 22/09/2010 10:50 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:35:08 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
>> spake thusly:
>>
>>> I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me
>>> actually achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil.
>>> OTOH, my data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't
>>> that much of a hack.
>>
>> Well yeah if it's tabular data present it in a table nothing evil about
>> that well unless you're going to use nested tables just for display
>> purposes that's frowned upon; and if you're not then you're going to
>> have to style every single cell and that's just messy.
>
> Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style  
> every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating  
> colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And since  
> the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...

tr:nth-child(odd){background-color:red;}
tr:nth-child(even){background-color:blue;}

Seeing as you don't care about IE :-)

As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to  
line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6  
and then do the same for column 2.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 06:34:05
Message: <4c99db9d@news.povray.org>
>> Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style
>> every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating
>> colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And
>> since the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...
>
> tr:nth-child(odd){background-color:red;}
> tr:nth-child(even){background-color:blue;}
>
> Seeing as you don't care about IE :-)

That works? Impressive... (As you say, it's only taken 10 years!)

> As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to
> line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6
> and then do the same for column 2.

Just adjust the padding property for column one. The other columns 
automatically line up, the way they always do in a table.


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From: Phil Cook v2
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 09:05:28
Message: <op.vjfqnlq5mn4jds@phils>
And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:34:03 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>> As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to
>> line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6
>> and then do the same for column 2.
>
> Just adjust the padding property for column one. The other columns  
> automatically line up, the way they always do in a table.

Well would you look at that. You learn something new every day.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Web page construction
Date: 22 Sep 2010 16:12:48
Message: <4c9a6340$1@news.povray.org>
On 22/09/2010 02:05 PM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:34:03 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
> spake thusly:
>
>>> As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to
>>> line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6
>>> and then do the same for column 2.
>>
>> Just adjust the padding property for column one. The other columns
>> automatically line up, the way they always do in a table.
>
> Well would you look at that. You learn something new every day.

See, that's what's so awesome about this newsgroup. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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