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Mike the Elder <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> B. PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT A PREPOSITION IS NOT WHAT ONE SHOULD END A SENTENCE
> WITH.
It irritates me when people blindly repeat the lore about certain
conventions of writing being bad, even though there's nothing wrong
about these conventions. It's ok to end a sentence in a preposition,
or start a sentence with a conjunction. There's nothing wrong about it.
The notion of them being "bad English" is just an urban legend invented
by some individual.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> It's ok to end a sentence in a preposition,
Even the guy who invented the rule said it was OK as long as the preposition
was necessary. The actual rule is to not add an extra preposition that
doesn't change the sentence.
I.e., "Where is the library at?" can be just as easily written "Where is the
library?"
On the other hand, "Who did you give it to?" is fine, because you can't say
"Who did you give it?"
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Quoth the raven:
Need S'Mores!
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Warp wrote:
> There are two things that irritate me quite a lot when people write
> prose, especially online:
BTW, "fake" doesn't mean what you think it means. :-) A machine-assisted
speed-run is still "fake" even if everyone knows it's speed-assisted, just
like Star Wars had fake space ships.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Quoth the raven:
Need S'Mores!
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > There are two things that irritate me quite a lot when people write
> > prose, especially online:
> BTW, "fake" doesn't mean what you think it means. :-) A machine-assisted
> speed-run is still "fake" even if everyone knows it's speed-assisted, just
> like Star Wars had fake space ships.
A movie is not a "fake documentary" because a movie is not intended to
pass for one. It's made clear that it's fiction, and hence it's completely
genuine fiction. Nobody calls a movie "a fake documentary".
A documentary which fabricates events and claims them to have truly
happened, with the intention of fooling people, is fake.
Likewise a tool-assisted speedrun is not a "fake speedrun" because it's
not made for the purpose of fooling people into thinking that it's one.
Calling it a fake makes as much sense as calling a movie a fake documentary.
--
- Warp
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On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:51:58 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> It's ok to end a sentence in a preposition,
>
> Even the guy who invented the rule said it was OK as long as the
> preposition was necessary. The actual rule is to not add an extra
> preposition that doesn't change the sentence.
>
> I.e., "Where is the library at?" can be just as easily written "Where is
> the library?"
>
> On the other hand, "Who did you give it to?" is fine, because you can't
> say "Who did you give it?"
Except that it should be "Whom", IIRC. ;-)
Jim
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> There are two things that irritate me quite a lot when people write
>>> prose, especially online:
>
>> BTW, "fake" doesn't mean what you think it means. :-) A machine-assisted
>> speed-run is still "fake" even if everyone knows it's speed-assisted, just
>> like Star Wars had fake space ships.
>
> A movie is not a "fake documentary" because a movie is not intended to
> pass for one. It's made clear that it's fiction, and hence it's completely
> genuine fiction. Nobody calls a movie "a fake documentary".
>
> A documentary which fabricates events and claims them to have truly
> happened, with the intention of fooling people, is fake.
A movie isn't a fake documentary because something like Inception doesn't
look like a documentary. "This Is Spinal Tap" is indeed a "fake
documentary", even tho nobody thinks it's real.
> Likewise a tool-assisted speedrun is not a "fake speedrun" because it's
> not made for the purpose of fooling people into thinking that it's one.
> Calling it a fake makes as much sense as calling a movie a fake documentary.
I'm just saying, if someone came up and said "Is that real?" I'd say "No,
it's fake." Exactly like if someone came up to me while I was watching Star
Wars and said "Are those real space ships?" I'd say "No, they're fake", even
tho nobody thinks Star Wars is real.
A movie fails to be a "fake documentary" only to the extent that it doesn't
look like a documentary. Being "fake" isn't what gives it negative
connotations. If you call something "bogus" or "counterfeit", then you're
giving negative connotations. But, as a native speaker of American english,
I've never heard "fake" to mean purely "I was fooled by it". There are many
"fake" things that don't pretend to be real. People put fake skeletons and
headstones on their lawn during halloween. Pretending to throw the
football[1] and not doing so is a "pump fake" with no negative connotations
and indeed with kudos to the quarterback. Spock's star trek ears were real
makeup but fake ears, and nobody thought vulcans were real.
I'm just saying that "fake" doesn't always carry a negative connotation.
Saying a speed run is "fake" doesn't imply the runner was trying to fool you
into thinking he is that good at the game, any more than saying Spock's ears
are fake means Nimoy was trying to fool you into believing vulcans are real.
Just so's ya know. :-)
[1] Let's not go there.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Quoth the raven:
Need S'Mores!
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Darren New wrote:
> I'm just saying, if someone came up and said "Is that real?" I'd say
> "No, it's fake." Exactly like if someone came up to me while I was
> watching Star Wars and said "Are those real space ships?" I'd say "No,
> they're fake", even tho nobody thinks Star Wars is real.
Oh, and interestingly enough, imagine a version of Alien where in order to
escape, they built a simulacrum of an alien out of tofu and propped it up in
the corridor. Then you'd say the live alien is "real," the tofu is fake,
even tho both are unreal and everyone involves knows that both are movie props.
And the robot "isn't a real person", even tho the actor is a real person,
and you're supposed to believe the robot is a real person. So it all gets
rather confusing.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Quoth the raven:
Need S'Mores!
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"Mike the Elder" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> > There are two things that irritate me quite a lot when people write
> > prose, especially online:
> >
> > 1: When, in the middle of a longer sentence, they start writing something
> > in parentheses, but never close them. Sometimes it's confusing and hard to
> > guess where the thing in parentheses is supposed to end.
> >
> > 2: When people write something like: "Two points: Firstly, ..." but then
> > they never write "Secondly, ..." or anything like that anywhere in the text.
> > Thus it's hard to see what the *other* point they are making is.
> >
> > Yeah, minor things, but...
> >
> > --
> > - Warp
>
> FIVE THINGS THAT IRRITATE ME:
>
> 1. EXCESSIVE CAPITALIZATION
>
> B. PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT A PREPOSITION IS NOT WHAT ONE SHOULD END A SENTENCE
> WITH.
>
> III. NIT-PICKING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S WRITING STYLE
>
> FOUR: PEOPLE NOT FINISHING WHAT THEY START.
LOL
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And lo On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:55:29 +0100, Jim Henderson
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake thusly:
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:51:58 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> Warp wrote:
>>> It's ok to end a sentence in a preposition,
>>
>> Even the guy who invented the rule said it was OK as long as the
>> preposition was necessary. The actual rule is to not add an extra
>> preposition that doesn't change the sentence.
>>
>> I.e., "Where is the library at?" can be just as easily written "Where is
>> the library?"
>>
>> On the other hand, "Who did you give it to?" is fine, because you can't
>> say "Who did you give it?"
>
> Except that it should be "Whom", IIRC. ;-)
Or to be precise "To whom did you give it?" :-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> Or to be precise "To whom did you give it?" :-)
Except that's a contortion to avoid putting a preposition at the end of a
sentence that isn't problematic to put at the end of a sentence.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Quoth the raven:
Need S'Mores!
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