Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:35:52 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>> http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/vfx/rl_img/vfx_image_10.jpg
> 
> That was part of it for me, but even in the example you've linked to, the 
> one on the right has an unnatural crease on his forehead.  It's not a 
> *lousy* model, but it's not outstanding to my eye, either.  Not that I 
> could make one that was as good, mind - but the one on the right says 
> "CG" to me in a way the one on the left doesn't.  The forehead is too 
> long as well, and the jawline isn't right.

Exactly, which is a good thing that they are never on close up.  Good 
enough on a distance.  And despite visible flaws, still miles of 
distance from what one may find in any modern game, which don't have 
subsurface scattering or real hair.  That's why I call Andrew's 
assumptions BS.

> The other part for me (other than the cloth effects, which you note) was 
> that the superhuman movements didn't have a natural enough feel to them.  
> Yes, they're supernatural, but my mind picked up on certain aspects of 
> the movements that didn't seem right (it's hard to describe exactly) and 
> my brain registered it as "not real".

Yes, but I can't imagine either how a super being with super strength 
would look like by, say, walking and jumping on top of lots of people 
underneath.  Perhaps it'd look downright... unnatural and cartoonish.

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> What I recall was that it was intended to (obviously) cover the post-
> empire galaxy; perhaps the rebuilding of the Jedi would have been a major 
> part of that.

  Why does that sound such a boring idea? The big evil has been defeated,
time to rebuild.

  What would be the confrontation? Construction workers striking because of
poor working conditions?-)

  (OTOH I'm sure some people would say that would be a much more enjoyable
trilogy than episodes 1-3...)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Btw, there's one thing I really can't understand.

  Fans love Darth Vader. Fans want Darth Vader (some of the probably in the
double entendre way). But George Lucas outright refuses to give his fans
what they want. It's like Lucas has been infatuated by Anakin Skywalker, but
hates Darth Vader so much that he refuses to make anything related to him
anymore. But why? Why not give fans what they want?

  If I were Lucas, I would try to redeem the negative hype episodes 1-3 got
by making an interquel movie placed between episodes 3 and 4. It would be
all about Darth Vader and it would *not* be a children's movie. Instead, it
would be dark, and Darth Vader would be portrayed as a total badass, just
like the fans want him.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:49:52 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:35:52 -0200, nemesis wrote:
>>> http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/vfx/rl_img/vfx_image_10.jpg
>> 
>> That was part of it for me, but even in the example you've linked to,
>> the one on the right has an unnatural crease on his forehead.  It's not
>> a *lousy* model, but it's not outstanding to my eye, either.  Not that
>> I could make one that was as good, mind - but the one on the right says
>> "CG" to me in a way the one on the left doesn't.  The forehead is too
>> long as well, and the jawline isn't right.
> 
> Exactly, which is a good thing that they are never on close up.  Good
> enough on a distance.  And despite visible flaws, still miles of
> distance from what one may find in any modern game, which don't have
> subsurface scattering or real hair.  That's why I call Andrew's
> assumptions BS.

They may be for you, but for him and me they're not, they're reasonable 
assumptions.  Good for you that they're good enough to support the 
suspension of disbelief; they're not for me. <shrug>

>> The other part for me (other than the cloth effects, which you note)
>> was that the superhuman movements didn't have a natural enough feel to
>> them. Yes, they're supernatural, but my mind picked up on certain
>> aspects of the movements that didn't seem right (it's hard to describe
>> exactly) and my brain registered it as "not real".
> 
> Yes, but I can't imagine either how a super being with super strength
> would look like by, say, walking and jumping on top of lots of people
> underneath.  Perhaps it'd look downright... unnatural and cartoonish.

Well, your lack of imagination in that matter doesn't impact my brain's 
interpretation of the events, which I found to be not in line with what 
reality would look like in my mind.

Jim

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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:11:56 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Btw, there's one thing I really can't understand.
> 
>   Fans love Darth Vader. Fans want Darth Vader (some of the probably in
>   the
> double entendre way). But George Lucas outright refuses to give his fans
> what they want. It's like Lucas has been infatuated by Anakin Skywalker,
> but hates Darth Vader so much that he refuses to make anything related
> to him anymore. But why? Why not give fans what they want?
> 
>   If I were Lucas, I would try to redeem the negative hype episodes 1-3
>   got
> by making an interquel movie placed between episodes 3 and 4. It would
> be all about Darth Vader and it would *not* be a children's movie.
> Instead, it would be dark, and Darth Vader would be portrayed as a total
> badass, just like the fans want him.

Depending on how it was done, I'd be interested in that as well.  Though 
by the time we get to the end of ep3, the transformation has completely 
taken place.  I have to admit that of the three prequel movies, that part 
was a part that did not disappoint from a story standpoint.

Jim

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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:58:29 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> What I recall was that it was intended to (obviously) cover the post-
>> empire galaxy; perhaps the rebuilding of the Jedi would have been a
>> major part of that.
> 
>   Why does that sound such a boring idea? The big evil has been
>   defeated,
> time to rebuild.

Well, I didn't say it wasn't boring - who knows, maybe a new evil menace 
tries to destroy the Jedi from within during the reconstruction.

>   What would be the confrontation? Construction workers striking because
>   of
> poor working conditions?-)
> 
>   (OTOH I'm sure some people would say that would be a much more
>   enjoyable
> trilogy than episodes 1-3...)

LOL

Jim

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Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> I have a vague recollection of this as well, but I don't think it was 
>> planned out in detail.  But originally, it was 9 films, and the first 
>> three released were the middle group.
> 
>   Given that all six films are basically about Anakin Skywalker, I wonder
> what the films 7-9 would have been about. Ewoks?
> 
Those would likely have been some variation on what appeared in the 
games Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight Mysteries of the Sith, and Jedi Academy. 
I.e., the rebuilding of the Jedi order, and its continued conflict with 
trying to prevent the reawakening of the Sith in the process.

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:55:23 -0500, Warp wrote:
> 
>> Nowadays when you
>> can control absolutely everything and have whatever you might want show
>> up on screen, no matter how crazy, it easily derails the directing. The
>> director might get so enthralled by his own omnipotence to get whatever
>> he wants on screen that he forgets that he should actually be filming a
>> story, not a computer graphics demonstration.
> 
> Well said; one of the things I really like is when the effects are 
> invisible.  We just watched the first and second Bourne movies again, and 
> I was quite amazed watching the credits to see ILM credited with VFX 
> work.  I couldn't name a scene with ILM VFX in it, that's how well done 
> the effects were - they didn't jump out and scream "I'm CGI!  I'm a 
> special effect, look at me!" - they helped tell a very well-written story.
> 
> Jim

This is pretty close to what someone recently wrote as a review of 
Avatar. After a brief case of, "Wow, there are vines hanging all over 
the place.", you forget that you are looking at something CG at all. The 
problem, as he pointed out, is that the next guy to use what made it 
amazing will be used to make something that **won't** spend time on the 
story, and *will* scream CG because of it. It will be all about, "See, 
we can do this level of CG too!", and not about the story.

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:24:53 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> This is pretty close to what someone recently wrote as a review of
> Avatar. After a brief case of, "Wow, there are vines hanging all over
> the place.", you forget that you are looking at something CG at all. The
> problem, as he pointed out, is that the next guy to use what made it
> amazing will be used to make something that **won't** spend time on the
> story, and *will* scream CG because of it. It will be all about, "See,
> we can do this level of CG too!", and not about the story.

Interesting.  I'm somewhat apprehensive about Avatar myself; my wife's 
got friends who are disabled, and they're quite unhappy about one of the 
central the ideas behind the film being that if you're disabled, you 
couldn't possibly live a normal life and the pinnacle of hope is that you 
could do something that made you not be disabled.

Needless to say, my wife's friends who are disabled are fiercely 
independent and find that premise to be quite offensive.

I may rent it on Netflix once just to see the effects, but I don't have 
high hopes for the story.

Jim

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oh, BTW, just found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQyuIQmVelA&NR=1

the rest of the series is far more fun, though.  Like the LOTR one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU

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