Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Poor assumption. 

Well since I don't leave in US I think this is understandable, so things 
are worse than this... yeah, is a matter of concern.

> What you get from these people is that they have gotten 
> rich off of being the way they are, which involves belief also in their 
> divine right to rule, etc., which means 1) exploitation, 2) cheating, 3) 
> lying for their god, 4) making masses of money from these things, 5) 
> being convinced that, since the world will end, they don't need to "do" 
> anything about things like health care, poverty, the environment, etc. 
> The #1 biggest group of idiots in the US that a) own large businesses, 
> and b) deny the need to fix various problems we have, are also people 
> that think all the problems are "signs of the coming end", and that 
> apposing them is actually counter to what their god wants.

IMO, Inherent human imperfection causes God guidelines 
misinterpretations, voluntarily or not, so followers of a faulty 
interpretation in turn misinterpret again, purposely or not, further 
misinterpretation gives the religious radicals, all these from a lack of 
humbleness also inherent to Humans. Cause of imperfection: imperfect way 
of love. I don't spec you to share this opinion, as you're an Atheist, 
but I wrote it in case you wonder why the foolish religious behavior.

What those religious people should do is actually prepare their souls 
and "Love God above all and YOUR PROXY AS YOURSELF", this is for 
Christians but I think can be applied to every religion; giving a crap, 
is not part of any religion AFAIK or any decent behavior.

> That is the real problem. When you expect the world to end any day, you 
> are not going to be inclined to make 10, 20, 100 year plans, or more, to 
> "fix" serious problems. You are not going to invest in alternative 
> energy which you will never need, you won't bother trying to improve the 
> health, well being, or poverty level, of other people, since they won't 
> be alive, based on your belief, long enough to benefit from any of it. 
> All you can do is try to kiss ass, so you are not one of the "left 
> behind" when things go to hell, and that means opposing abortions, 
> apposing gay marriage, etc., to these people, not *helping* to make 
> anything better. If it doesn't happen, you just change the date, and 
> continue "hating the sins", while screwing everyone around you, until 
> the next day comes and goes. Don't attribute some ulterior motive to 
> these people, I know a fair number that "used to be" them, and they will 
> flat out tell you that they **believed** all of it 100%, until they 
> figured out just how badly they had been lied to from birth, about 
> almost everything, and how much pure insanity was necessary to maintain 
> that belief.

Looks like those people are making a pretext out of religious and 
fatalist "prophesies" to indulge laziness and only keep minding its own 
businesses while they swore otherwise, hypocrisy with "camouflage", but 
consequences will get those people, nobody can scape that.

I see clearly what you mean, but if I think about it to much I get 
worked up, so I prefer to think smart not hard on those issues, do all I 
can when I get the chance and give myself and other a break, nobody is 
perfect and change takes time & pain.

Cheers.

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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> IMO, Inherent human imperfection causes God guidelines 
> misinterpretations, voluntarily or not,

Why would God allow such a thing?

> but I think can be applied to every religion; 

I would think not.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> Poor assumption. 
> 
> Well since I don't leave in US I think this is understandable, so things 
> are worse than this... yeah, is a matter of concern.
> 
>> What you get from these people is that they have gotten rich off of 
>> being the way they are, which involves belief also in their divine 
>> right to rule, etc., which means 1) exploitation, 2) cheating, 3) 
>> lying for their god, 4) making masses of money from these things, 5) 
>> being convinced that, since the world will end, they don't need to 
>> "do" anything about things like health care, poverty, the environment, 
>> etc. The #1 biggest group of idiots in the US that a) own large 
>> businesses, and b) deny the need to fix various problems we have, are 
>> also people that think all the problems are "signs of the coming end", 
>> and that apposing them is actually counter to what their god wants.
> 
> IMO, Inherent human imperfection causes God guidelines 
> misinterpretations, voluntarily or not, so followers of a faulty 
> interpretation in turn misinterpret again, purposely or not, further 
> misinterpretation gives the religious radicals, all these from a lack of 
> humbleness also inherent to Humans. Cause of imperfection: imperfect way 
> of love. I don't spec you to share this opinion, as you're an Atheist, 
> but I wrote it in case you wonder why the foolish religious behavior.
> 
Umm. Answer me this question.. A few hundred years **prior** to the 
Jewish religion there was one that worshipped El, which later became 
Elohim, which later got converted into some generic term for "god in 
general", all by the followers of **one tribe**. So, why did they pick 
the war monger Yahweh, instead of one of the other 6 sons of El, 
Chemosh, Dagon, Baal, Milcom, Hadad or Qos? Seems to me, that the only 
reason Yahweh won, and the rest people stopped worshiping, was 
**because**, during that time period, his followers killed everyone 
else, or forced them to convert, and then later on, the Romans tacked on 
Jesus, borrowed from several other legends, as a replacement for the Old 
Testament's new messiah, which was, **gasp!** supposed to, according to 
**every** text in it that mentions him, supposed to be another true 
follower of Yahweh. Which is to say, a mass murdering war leader, 
dedicated to obliterating infidels.

When you stop following the "official" mistranslated, historically 
ignorant, and badly distorted words of people that **needed** their god 
to be the one and only true god, you start having issues like this. What 
happened to the other 6, and how, when even the original Jewish texts 
still say things like, "you won't worship any of those *other* gods", 
while earlier talking about more than one of them doing and creating 
things, is Yahweh suddenly the "true one", when he was just Ares, as 
apposed to Zeus? I just don't get it... Well, other than its politically 
a lot more effective if your priests are the only ones making the rules, 
and everyone else's are all dead, or disempowered.

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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Darren New wrote:
> Saul Luizaga wrote:
>> IMO, Inherent human imperfection causes God guidelines 
>> misinterpretations, voluntarily or not,
> 
> Why would God allow such a thing?

Well IMO theologists have their own theories but personally I think He 
does so we can need each other to compensate our imperfect (selfish) 
behavior, but honestly I don't think that nobody can unswer why, you'd 
have to ask Him in person. But the fact is that we're imperfect in many 
ways but perfectibles.

> 
>> but I think can be applied to every religion; 
> 
> I would think not.

Well not strictly, I don't know what every religion in the world is 
about, but mainly every religion preaches how God want us to love each 
other the best way possible, you get me?

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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Umm. Answer me this question.. A few hundred years **prior** to the 
> Jewish religion there was one that worshipped El, which later became 
> Elohim, which later got converted into some generic term for "god in 
> general", all by the followers of **one tribe**. So, why did they pick 
> the war monger Yahweh, instead of one of the other 6 sons of El, 
> Chemosh, Dagon, Baal, Milcom, Hadad or Qos? Seems to me, that the only 
> reason Yahweh won, and the rest people stopped worshiping, was 
> **because**, during that time period, his followers killed everyone 
> else, or forced them to convert, and then later on, the Romans tacked on 
> Jesus, borrowed from several other legends, as a replacement for the Old 
> Testament's new messiah, which was, **gasp!** supposed to, according to 
> **every** text in it that mentions him, supposed to be another true 
> follower of Yahweh. Which is to say, a mass murdering war leader, 
> dedicated to obliterating infidels.
> 
> When you stop following the "official" mistranslated, historically 
> ignorant, and badly distorted words of people that **needed** their god 
> to be the one and only true god, you start having issues like this. What 
> happened to the other 6, and how, when even the original Jewish texts 
> still say things like, "you won't worship any of those *other* gods", 
> while earlier talking about more than one of them doing and creating 
> things, is Yahweh suddenly the "true one", when he was just Ares, as 
> apposed to Zeus? I just don't get it... Well, other than its politically 
> a lot more effective if your priests are the only ones making the rules, 
> and everyone else's are all dead, or disempowered.

I can't answer your question as a Theologist, but I'll do my best as a 
spiritual person.

I have seen "The Davinci Code" and found that Jesus yes was in deed a 
great man... yeah you read it right, I know now he wasn't God, a God or 
the son of God, an Roman Emperor made him God for convenience, so the 
Bible for me is not the word of God but a very good source of Moral, 
Spiritual and Love guide, so about Yahweh being a mass murderer deity 
and other stuff, is not, and I don't think ever was, much concern for my 
behavior, but the practical teaching of Jesus Christ that I can apply to 
my life, I don't know if was also manipulated or not but is: "Love GOd 
above all else and your proxy as yourself", works every time and you 
don't need to meditate much since those are fairly simple word, but the 
meditation comes *how* we do this every day, is very difficult but if 
you try very hard can be achieved and is in escence what we all need... 
you can demand respect from a people that doesn't have love or never 
been taught how to express it in a good way if they never recieved it to 
begin with (sometime life is extraordinarily cruel and difficult for 
some people), so the trick is to teach respect to the ones who 
disrespects you *without* disrespect them.

I don't pretend to know everything about being a nice person but I learn 
about it and try to be one, I advice you the same.

Let me tell you a Godless example of it, maybe you know it already. Is a 
message in a Power Point presentation in Spanish so I can't post it 
here, so I'll translate it to you:

Title: "Your interior peace, depends on you"

"A legend tells that in a Tokio village lived a Samurai, who despite his 
advanced age, stand out for his Zen teachings to the young ones and 
could still defeat any adversary. One afternoon a foreign warrior 
appeared in the village known by his total lack of respect, he wanted to 
defeat the Samurai and increase his fame that way. The old man accepted 
the challenge and the young man started insult him, kicked some stones 
toward him, spat on his face, yelled insults, offended his ancestors and 
did a lot of things to offend and wake up anger and fury in the old man.

For hours the young man did everything to provoke the Samurai, but he 
remained impassive. At the end of the day, feeling exhausted and 
humiliated, the warrior retired himself.

The Samurai students, surprised, asked their Master how could he 
tolerate so much indignation and he answered:

- If someone comes to you with a present and you don't want to accept 
it, to whom belongs the present?

- His disciples answered: to who tried to deliver it.

- The same goes for lust, anger, defamation and insults. When they're 
not accepted, continue to belong to who carried them along.

*Your interior peace depends exclusively on you. The persons can't take 
your calm from you, unless you permit it.*"

I wrote this because you seem to needed because the way you write looks 
like you're very worked up by the things going on in your Country right 
now. I don't pretend to know what are your feeling, just thought you may 
need this.


Cheers.

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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Well not strictly, I don't know what every religion in the world is 
> about, but mainly every religion preaches how God want us to love each 
> other the best way possible, you get me?

Um, no. Indeed, most religions don't preach that.

Buddhism doesn't. Wicca doesn't. Greek gods weren't particularly admirable. 
Norse gods weren't particularly loving. Mayan gods wanted you to kill each 
other.

I'm pretty sure that even Islam doesn't preach that, but rather obedience to 
God over all else. I'm also pretty sure that bit doesn't actually show up in 
the old testament as well.

Indeed, unless you think every religion is Christianity and indeed only the 
loving parts of Christianity, I'm pretty sure that "most" is overblown.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I'm also pretty sure that bit doesn't actually show up in 
> the old testament as well.

  Actually the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment is not an
invention of the New Testament. It's based on Mosaic law (Leviticus 19:18).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> I'm also pretty sure that bit doesn't actually show up in 
>> the old testament as well.
> 
>   Actually the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment is not an
> invention of the New Testament. It's based on Mosaic law (Leviticus 19:18).

I stand corrected.  That's kind of obvious in retrospect.  D'oh!

Of course, that means "your neighbor" and probably doesn't mean, say, the 
Egyptian Pharaohs, the Samaritans, etc.

And I forgot to list scientology, as well. And I don't know what the Mormon 
stance on loving each other, but I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of caveats 
in there too, given they dislike their gay members loving their neighbors, 
for example.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> I'm also pretty sure that bit doesn't actually show up in 
> >> the old testament as well.
> > 
> >   Actually the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment is not an
> > invention of the New Testament. It's based on Mosaic law (Leviticus 19:18).

> I stand corrected.  That's kind of obvious in retrospect.  D'oh!

> Of course, that means "your neighbor" and probably doesn't mean, say, the 
> Egyptian Pharaohs, the Samaritans, etc.

  It is probably true that "neighbor" in that Leviticus passage refers to
"your fellow Israelites" rather than "everybody".

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> I'm also pretty sure that bit doesn't actually show up in 
>>>> the old testament as well.
>>>   Actually the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment is not an
>>> invention of the New Testament. It's based on Mosaic law (Leviticus 19:18).
> 
>> I stand corrected.  That's kind of obvious in retrospect.  D'oh!
> 
>> Of course, that means "your neighbor" and probably doesn't mean, say, the 
>> Egyptian Pharaohs, the Samaritans, etc.
> 
>   It is probably true that "neighbor" in that Leviticus passage refers to
> "your fellow Israelites" rather than "everybody".
> 
Given the rest of what is in those passages... good bet. lol

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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