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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
>> Granted, calling what americans do "football" is a stretch
>
> I have always wondered why they call it football
Trolling backwards thru wikipedia history sections...
"The game of football which was played at Rugby School between 1750 and 1859
permitted handling of the ball, but no-one was allowed to run with it in
their hands towards the opposition's goal." I don't know how relevant that
is, tho, but apparently rugby was also called "football" originally.
American football is much closer to rugby than soccer.
Heard this weekend:
"Wow, that was quite a hit. It's taking him a while to get up."
"Well, he's moving his arms and legs, so he should be alright."
"They're carrying him off the field now."
"He'll be fine, but the nine players carrying him off all have hernias now."
Turns out he didn't fit in the MRI at the hospital, either.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On 5-10-2009 2:19, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> How about arming the Russian civilians in the 80's or the Chinese
>> peasants with guns. Would that have lead to a armed coup to install a
>> democratic government?
>
> Uh, they had a democratic government, and took the totalitarian one by
> preference.
Well, whose preference? I think the general opinion is that the
revolutions were supported by more people than the change to
totalitarianism and that actually not many people understood what was
really going on. The last you might even say about Germany. Anyway I was
scratching the options from a list of possible evidence or suggestions
that having guns for might be useful in preventing a setting aside of a
constitution. Whether you formulate it as I did or as you did, these two
countries will not add even a weak suggestion that that might be useful.
> Most people in china are quite happy with their government.
Probably right, but also not quite on topic AFAIC.
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On 5-10-2009 5:18, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Chambers wrote:
>>> If that were the case, then shouldn't all the other countries with
>>> tougher gun control have been replaced by totalitarian regimes by now?
>>
>> Many of them have been. The USA is arguably[1] one of the countries
>> with the longest continuous government. (Altho I don't expect that's
>> really due to the gun laws. :-)
>>
>> [1] The argument being how you measure "continuous". One can measure
>> it in a way that very few governments are older.
>>
> Its also the country with the highest number of people in jail, the
> highest levels of drug use, the highest cases of teen pregnancies, the
> highest rate of violent crime, the highest level of science denial, etc.
> Well, once you discount places like the ME, since compared to them, we
> have only the "second highest" number of religious fanatics.
>
> Somehow, I would hate to think that "longest continuous government"
> requires any or all of these things, to survive this long.
As I understood it that phrase was for some definition of 'continuous'
with a footnote that other definitions are possible. IMHO you have to
carefully select that definition *knowing* that the US has to come up on
top. For any reasonable definition that won't happen.
Let me try at a minimal and sufficient set:
- still in charge in 2009 (to exclude China, Japan and a host of other
countries)
- a written constitution (to exclude e.g. the UK and the Vatican and to
narrow it down to countries. Otherwise almost any European city would be
longer)
- no major changes to the constitution (to exclude e.g. the Netherlands)
- major changes to the area of the country are explicitly allowed.
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andrel wrote:
> revolutions were supported by more people than the change to
> totalitarianism
That's probably true, yes. Given that, not all totalitarian states are
evil. The main problem is that it's difficult to get rid of the evil ones.
> that having guns for might be useful in preventing a setting aside of a
> constitution. Whether you formulate it as I did or as you did, these two
> countries will not add even a weak suggestion that that might be useful.
Fair dinkum.
>> Most people in china are quite happy with their government.
> Probably right, but also not quite on topic AFAIC.
I will snarkily point at the newsgroup name. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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andrel wrote:
>>> [1] The argument being how you measure "continuous". One can measure
>>> it in a way that very few governments are older.
> As I understood it that phrase was for some definition of 'continuous'
> with a footnote that other definitions are possible.
Well, yes. See the footnote. :-)
> IMHO you have to
> carefully select that definition *knowing* that the US has to come up on
> top. For any reasonable definition that won't happen.
> Let me try at a minimal and sufficient set:
> - still in charge in 2009 (to exclude China, Japan and a host of other
> countries)
Well, yes, I had thought of that. The right phrase is it's the "oldest"
country, not the "longest surviving" country. :-)
> - a written constitution (to exclude e.g. the UK and the Vatican and to
> narrow it down to countries. Otherwise almost any European city would be
> longer)
Nah. I don't think you can say Venice has the same government it had before
Italy was founded. Certainly the Medici aren't the supreme lawmakers any more.
And for countries without constitutions, having the government replaced by
force is sufficient. So, for example, going from one monarchy to a different
family running the monarchy thru conquest would count as a "new country."
> - no major changes to the constitution (to exclude e.g. the Netherlands)
> - major changes to the area of the country are explicitly allowed.
I would think as long as it's just expansion that makes sense. Even
voluntarily selling off territory would count. Having it taken away wouldn't.
But yeah, I wasn't arguing it was the case. I was arguing you could
*consider* it to be the case, which is pretty good right there.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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On 6-10-2009 0:11, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> revolutions were supported by more people than the change to
>> totalitarianism
>
> That's probably true, yes. Given that, not all totalitarian states are
> evil.
for certain values of totalitarian and evil
> The main problem is that it's difficult to get rid of the evil ones.
>
>> that having guns for might be useful in preventing a setting aside of
>> a constitution. Whether you formulate it as I did or as you did, these
>> two countries will not add even a weak suggestion that that might be
>> useful.
>
> Fair dinkum.
Geographical error in line 6.
>>> Most people in china are quite happy with their government.
>> Probably right, but also not quite on topic AFAIC.
>
> I will snarkily point at the newsgroup name. ;-)
>
No need, I know where I am.
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Darren New wrote:
> Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>> No, my reason was because these guys had no business teaching anything.
>
> Heh. Good story.
>
> Reminds me of "physical education" classes. Usually taught by geezers
> too old to actually demonstrate how to do a push-up, for example.
>
> Plus, they never actually taught you anything. They'd decide that today
> you'll play football, and *assumed* everyone knew all the rules *and*
> how to play football, etc. I didn't know how to catch a football, throw
> a football, or which way I was supposed to run when I got the football.
>
> (Football being gridiron, for all you non-americans.)
>
Snort. The ones that do know are worse. They just want to pick out the
3-4 people in class that are good at sports, and screw everyone else.
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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Darren New wrote:
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> Its also the country with the highest number of people in jail,
>
> Not necessarily. We count people in jail awaiting trial. Other countries
> don't.
>
>> highest levels of drug use,
>
> Hard to measure, I'd think.
>
>> the highest cases of teen pregnancies, the highest rate of violent
>> crime, the highest level of science denial, etc.
>
> That I'd believe.
>
>> Somehow, I would hate to think that "longest continuous government"
>> requires any or all of these things, to survive this long.
>
> It doesn't. I'm thinking it's because of the flexibility of the
> constitution along with its inflexibility in some respects.
>
>> And, its not so clear why, "only modern country that has relatively
>> weak gun laws", is on the "good things" side of the line, instead of
>> right up there with the other list. ;) lol
>
> True, but you also have to ask about the attitudes behind it. We're also
> one of the few countries where the soldiers don't swear to obey the
> leaders, for example, but rather the country's legal system.
>
No. We reserve that for the first 6-8 years of school, depending on the
state, in the form of the pledge of allegiance. Since, after all, kids
are a) too stupid to know what an oath is, b) it still means something
after the 584th time you say it, and c) its not a bit insulting to
assume that, if you don't keep saying it, you might backslide and turn
into a commie. lol
Oh, and.. I wouldn't be too sure some of them don't. We had at least one
moron state, multiple times, even after being admonished for it, during
a congressional hearing, that she had, "taken an oath to defend the
president", rather than say... the constitution.
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> No. We reserve that for the first 6-8 years of school, depending on the
> state, in the form of the pledge of allegiance.
No. That's swearing to support the country, not the leaders.
> a congressional hearing, that she had, "taken an oath to defend the
> president", rather than say... the constitution.
Well, she's a moron. That doesn't mean she actually took that oath.
Thanksgiving: I am thankful my country's leaders wear business suits and not
military uniforms.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Darren New wrote:
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> No. We reserve that for the first 6-8 years of school, depending on
>> the state, in the form of the pledge of allegiance.
>
> No. That's swearing to support the country, not the leaders.
>
Its still over the top, and in insult to anyone that has to retake it
like 200 days a year, for 6-8 years.
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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