Captain Jack wrote:
> Encouraging your child to be creative may be the very best gift you can give 
> her, I think.

I'm not gonna argue with that.

> For general study in drawing, you can't beat "Drawing on the Right Side of 
> the Brain", by Betty Edwards. There's a companion workbook you can get for 
> it that's pretty good, too.

I have this book. I found it to be rather unhelpful.

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4abb954c@news.povray.org...
>> For general study in drawing, you can't beat "Drawing on the Right Side 
>> of the Brain", by Betty Edwards. There's a companion workbook you can get 
>> for it that's pretty good, too.
>
> I have this book. I found it to be rather unhelpful.

I've got another book I like, called "From Script to Screen" (IIRC, by 
Shamus Calhun, the spelling of which I may be butchering badly) where the 
author talks about traditional animation (really more history and business 
than artistry, but, still...) and he talks about his drawing technique, and 
how it's similar to what Betty Edwards was talking about.

What I took away from her book was the importance of getting away from rigid 
structures and goals in my drawing (I do my best thinking in terms of 
mathematics and software design) and to let the myself "zone out" and "just 
draw". There's something about letting loose of concentration and analysis 
and especially a need to erase that has helped my drawing skills a lot.

Not that they didn't need serious improvement from the outset, mind you. :)

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Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> My daughter loves to draw.  Honestly, at 11, she might already be able to 
> draw better than I can.  That's not saying a whole lot, though, but I think 
> she has potential.  She LOVES anime, and that's where her artistic interest 
> lies.  She wants to be an "animator".

Encourage her to experiment with different styles of drawing. Different
media, perspectives, layout. More on why, later.

> When I was younger, I loved to draw and paint, and perhaps I could have 
> developed that part of myself, but instead, I decided to take a much more 
> practical view of the rest of my life, and went into the computer field, 
> essentially guaranteeing (I hoped) that I would have a job somewhere.  Do I 
> have regrets?  A little.  Do I think I made the wrong choice?  No.  But what 
> I do think about is that I could have still mixed-in some art classes in 
> high school and college.  Instead, I went all-out geek, and only took 
> "geeky" classes: programming (obviously), math, physics, chemistry, etc. 
> That's what I regret.

I did the same as a kid. I could handle 2 point perspective before I was
ten, and was trying to wrap my head around 3 point. I loved Imagination
Station on PBS, but that might be aimed a little too young for an 11
year old.

What stopped me, and got me behind a camera or keyboard was too many
people telling me what I should not be drawing. No one told me what I
should try, just that there were things I shouldn't draw.

Don't over critique her work. If you notice that she is trying a new
style or technique, offer subtle pointers if you have to but help her
spot the stuff first. Ask for an explanation why, if say one shadow is
going the wrong direction or a building is leaning out of kilter, she
did that. That will also help her get used to the BS sessions that she
may do later if she goes to art school. At 11 she can get away with "The
red splotches represent my inner anger when my pet hamster died." but at
19 that will just get an eye-roll from professors.

> But as for my daughter, she may have more potential than I did.  She will 
> likely never be a Salvador Dali, or Hayao Miyazaki, but perhaps she could be 
> a Yoshitoshi Abe (one of my favorite animators).  Or maybe she'll change her 
> mind when she's 16.  Who knows.  I just want to make sure that I encourage 
> her in the mean-time, and if she does choose to take the artistic path, I'd 
> like to know what that entails, but I don't know anything.
> 
> Any advice?  Tips? 
> 
> 

Yeah, she will never be any of the folks you mentioned. She will either
be her self, with her own style and vision, or she won't be in the right
field. Taking after someone elses style in order to learn a new style is
fine. Striving to be like another artist leaves your own work feeling
dull, since your real meaning was to copy, not create.

Take her to museums when you can. Teach her to critique other peoples
work by doing so. You may never have to teach her to critique her own
work, then. Take her out and teach her to draw a scene; landscape,
buildings, whatever; exactly as she sees it. And how to draw things that
she doesn't see.

Even if she changes her mind later, she will always have those skills
and the memories of learning them from YOU.

And even if she doesn't study graphic art later, there is always
photography, advertising, chemistry, physics, computers, math, biology
and everything else. All of which can be applied to artistic endeavor.
So encourage every hobby that you can. I don't mean you need to buy her
all the tools she needs; drums if she wants to be a drummer one day,
lots of paints, paper and easels for painting, a new computer and Maya
for 3D animation. But get her to look at the tools, figure out if she is
willing to put in the time and effort to both acquire the tools and
learn to use them.


Disclaimer: Not a parent myself. Just what I have picked up from
baby-sitting teenagers, child psychology, and watching freshman trying
to build portfolios for college. The last is amusing if you are studying
in a different department and can listen in on what the professors
actually think.

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On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:10:58 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>Warp wrote:
>> Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> Some day I will be a [...] parent.
>> 
>>   At least you still are optimistic... ;)
>
>I love you too. :-P

That wasn't very nice. I read it as being optimistic.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:18:31 -0400, "Jeremy \"UncleHoot\" Praay"
<jer### [at] questsoftwarecmo> wrote:

>Any advice?  Tips? 

Take her to art galleries. It may not make her artistic but will give her a
background. Keep it short unless she is showing an interest. Try it a couple of
times before letting her give it up. It could be fun for a family outing.
Imagine her asking a question that you have to research together. :-)
Admittedly when I was young I had access to what I though was a very good Art
Gallery and Museum that my mother took me to it when I was very young. I then
started going on my own with school friends. (That sounds like a logical
fallacy. :) 
If she finds it interesting then it can be an interest for life. If she gets
bored then she can save a lot of time now rather than finding it out later.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"nemesis" <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote in message 
news:4abb75ad@news.povray.org...
> That reminds me that my dad used to encourage me in my youth artistic 
> endeavours.  Once I decided to learn to paint, oil, brushes, frames and 
> all.  There goes my old man and brings home the full painter's kit.  For 
> some reason I can't understand even now, I never touched it.
>
> I can't really say whatever happened, certainly it was not my intention to 
> piss off my father.  Perhaps I was too much overwhelmed by the task... :(

Or perhaps you felt too much pressure.  I can relate to that.

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"Sabrina Kilian" <ski### [at] vtedu> wrote in message 
news:4abbacfb$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Yeah, she will never be any of the folks you mentioned. She will either
> be her self, with her own style and vision, or she won't be in the right
> field. Taking after someone elses style in order to learn a new style is
> fine. Striving to be like another artist leaves your own work feeling
> dull, since your real meaning was to copy, not create.

I didn't mean it in the respect that she should take after someone else's 
style, but simply that she could possibly make a living in that business, 
but would probably never achieve superstardom.

Thanks for the advice!  I'm going to try to keep some of these things in my 
mind over the next few years.

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"Captain Jack" <Cap### [at] comcastnet> wrote in message 
news:4abb93e0@news.povray.org...
> Encouraging your child to be creative may be the very best gift you can 
> give her, I think.
>
> I'd suggest you get her a copy of the basic version of the software Anime 
> Studio from Smith Micro. It's really very easy to use, it's not awfully 
> expensive, and it comes with some good starter content. Despite the name, 
> it's good for almost any kind of 2D animation. You can import your own 
> images to animate, it's got good vector drawing tools, and it can even 
> import some 3D content (OBJ format, I think) and give you a 2D 
> representation of it.

Maybe later.  My philosophy in that regard is not to get bogged down in the 
tools, but to learn to draw first.  Although, arguably some tools teach you 
to draw, so it's something I'm keeping in mind.

> For traditional animation, I highly recommend "The Animator's Survival 
> Kit" by Richard Williams. It covers 2D cel style animation, but it's got 
> stuff that's very useful for any animation medium. Another old one I like 
> is "Timing for Animation".
>
> Manga art on paper, which is the art style that Anime derives from, is 
> traditionaly done with brush and ink or brush markers. If you hunt around 
> you can find some nice felt tip brush markers that are made with the Manga 
> artist in mind; they'll come in sets of varying thickness, with black and 
> a couple of shades of gray.

Currently, that's where she is most interested.  She's certainly not 
animating anything yet, but she loves doing manga-style characters.  Thanks 
for that tidbit.  :-)

> For general study in drawing, you can't beat "Drawing on the Right Side of 
> the Brain", by Betty Edwards. There's a companion workbook you can get for 
> it that's pretty good, too.
>
> I've found a lot of good art instruction books at my local used bookstore 
> (Half-Price Books is the chain I have access to around here) and they're 
> always pretty affordable.

The way I see it, anime/manga is her starting point.  I'd like to open up 
the rest of the world from that point.  Who knows, in 10 years, manga-style 
illustration may be huge in the US.  Or maybe she'll want to move to Japan. 
Or, maybe graphic-design is eventually where she will find herself.  Or 
maybe she'll become a lawyer.  I just don't want to ever feel like I'm 
"pushing" her in one direction or another, but simply giving her some 
parental guidance.

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> The way I see it, anime/manga is her starting point.  I'd like to open up 
> the rest of the world from that point.  Who knows, in 10 years, 
> manga-style illustration may be huge in the US.  Or maybe she'll want to 
> move to Japan. Or, maybe graphic-design is eventually where she will find 
> herself.  Or maybe she'll become a lawyer.  I just don't want to ever feel 
> like I'm "pushing" her in one direction or another, but simply giving her 
> some parental guidance.

As long as you encourage her and accept her (informed) decisions, I think 
she'll turn out all right. No matter what, things will probably get 
difficult for a few years, but they get better when the kids turn about 20 
or so. My daughter is getting married next week... we had a pretty rough 
patch when she was about 17 or so, but she seems to think (in emulation of 
Mark Twain) that her old man may have gotten somewhat smarter since then. :)

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"Jeremy \"UncleHoot\" Praay" <jer### [at] questsoftwarecmo> wrote:
> "nemesis" <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote in message
> news:4abb75ad@news.povray.org...
> > That reminds me that my dad used to encourage me in my youth artistic
> > endeavours.  Once I decided to learn to paint, oil, brushes, frames and
> > all.  There goes my old man and brings home the full painter's kit.  For
> > some reason I can't understand even now, I never touched it.
> >
> > I can't really say whatever happened, certainly it was not my intention to
> > piss off my father.  Perhaps I was too much overwhelmed by the task... :(
>
> Or perhaps you felt too much pressure.  I can relate to that.

I strongly agree.  In fact, Jeremy, accidental pressure can be a very large
issue, even to the point that it may be a good idea to avoid giving her
unrequested art supplies directly, instead providing her with a small "art
supply budget" for birthdays or other such, and let her decide what to get with
it (the rationale being that a well meaning person can accidentally pressure you
in a direction by, say, gifting a set of watercolors when you really prefer oil
pastels, but you don't want to disappoint them).  Disclaimer:  I am not a
parent.

-Reactor

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