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Chambers wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> I never realized before that when people talk about an "RPG" game,
>> they mean one involving "leveling up". I always thought it had
>> something to do with, I dunno, role playing or something. :-)
>
> Most video game players, when speaking of RPGs, are really speaking of
> CRPGs. Historically, computers have lacked the ability to allow
> adequate RP, and instead focused on the systems used for running the
> games (the numbers).
>
> As a result, most people think of RPGs as being characterized by such
> systems.
>
> Rather sad, really. There was a real RPG a few years ago, an indie one
> where you're sitting in a room with a married couple. You talk to them
> by typing sentences in, using natural language, and they also responded
> naturally. Since there was no apparent system (everything under the
> hood was hidden; the only feedback you got was what the couple said),
> along with no end-state (no way to win or lose), many people said it
> didn't even qualify as a game. Yet, working through this couple's
> problems with them was supposed to be quite engaging.
>
> (NB: I never actually got around to playing it, unfortunately, but I
> read a few good articles on it!)
>
> Yet games like WOW, which nothing *but* grinding through the system,
> sell like Mary Jane hot-cakes bundled with free condoms :(
>
CoLA - City of Lost Angels, in Second Life, not to mention New Delphi,
Crossroads, Bloodrayne, and a mess of non-English ones, all in SL, are
fair examples of RP (was 135 such sims, in... probably close to 15+
chains, or worlds if you will, each with anything from 1-20 sims). There
are probably far more now, but the page that showed all of them was
removed a while back from the website for it. Story line is 100% user
fed, within the parameters of the back stories. It "does" have levels
and stats, and the like, but its only for combat (at the moment), not
for anything else. A redesign is in the works that will integrate the
function of the system into the client used to log in, and go with a
system where you assign points to traits, to get specialization in
different "skills", rather than just getting levels, and becoming move
powerful as a result. There is no "grind", since there isn't anything to
kill, other than other RPers, and that won't gain you XP (only being in
the sims, with the meter on, actively involved, will get you that).
But, it has flaws, not the least being that it depends on SL to work,
and.. their sim system can be unstable as all hell some days, not to
mention lagging and other problems. :p
But, yeah. Most people think RP, and they think WoW, or EQ2, or
something like that.
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
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Warp wrote:
> Of course the stories, settings and paths are rather fixed because it
> would be quite impossible for a computer to generate the story as it goes,
I'm not so sure about that. While in theory there are an unlimited
number of stories, they're constructed of discreet elements that show up
repeatedly even in widely varied plots. There are even fewer stories
that readily qualify as 'stereotypical RPG fare', even taking
mind-bending plot-twists-from-left-field into consideration. So it's
really just a matter of chaining together elements from a table,
throwing in unique names and geography, balancing mechanics (which could
probably be done by the software, really...run a few hundred simulated
events in the background, adjusting things as needed), and you have a
computer-generated 'unique' storyline. How complex it is is really just
determined by quality of the table from which it grabs elements.
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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Tim Cook wrote:
> I'm not so sure about that. While in theory there are an unlimited
> number of stories, they're constructed of discreet elements that show up
> repeatedly even in widely varied plots. There are even fewer stories
> that readily qualify as 'stereotypical RPG fare', even taking
> mind-bending plot-twists-from-left-field into consideration. So it's
> really just a matter of chaining together elements from a table,
> throwing in unique names and geography, balancing mechanics (which could
> probably be done by the software, really...run a few hundred simulated
> events in the background, adjusting things as needed), and you have a
> computer-generated 'unique' storyline. How complex it is is really just
> determined by quality of the table from which it grabs elements.
For one of my classes I wrote a detailed business proposal to do just
that :) Of course, I figured on a 5 year timeline, and a few million
dollars for the R&D, so we never got to try it out... still, it's been
on the "back shelf" of my head for a while now, and I keep hoping I'll
have a chance to work on something like this.
--
Chambers
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Darren New wrote:
> Maybe I'm just spoiled by Thief
> and Deus Ex.
A few years ago they released an announcement trailer for DE3, by the
way. Hmm, I wonder what happened to that... ok, looks like it's set for
release in '10.
Man, I wish they would forget about sequels, and just make a next-gen
version of the original instead :)
BTW, from all the talk you do of the Thief series, I can't believe I've
never tried them...
--
Chambers
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Chambers wrote:
> BTW, from all the talk you do of the Thief series, I can't believe I've
> never tried them...
The first two are great. I've played each at least half a dozen times. And
cheap - $3 in the bargain bin if you can find it.
The third? Meh. I can't even work up the enthusiasm to finish it.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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On 9-7-2009 0:54, Tim Cook wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> Of course the stories, settings and paths are rather fixed because it
>> would be quite impossible for a computer to generate the story as it
>> goes,
>
> I'm not so sure about that. While in theory there are an unlimited
> number of stories, they're constructed of discreet elements that show up
> repeatedly even in widely varied plots. There are even fewer stories
> that readily qualify as 'stereotypical RPG fare', even taking
> mind-bending plot-twists-from-left-field into consideration. So it's
> really just a matter of chaining together elements from a table,
> throwing in unique names and geography, balancing mechanics (which could
> probably be done by the software, really...run a few hundred simulated
> events in the background, adjusting things as needed), and you have a
> computer-generated 'unique' storyline. How complex it is is really just
> determined by quality of the table from which it grabs elements.
So you want to create in interactive soap?
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andrel wrote:
> So you want to create in interactive soap?
Absolutely. That'd be awesome! Way better than existing games where
once you've played it, that's it. Even multiple-ending things with a
few internal branchings are lame compared to something that's entirely
new each time you start a new game! XD
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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Darren New escreveu:
> I never realized before that when people talk about an "RPG" game, they
> mean one involving "leveling up". I always thought it had something to
> do with, I dunno, role playing or something. :-)
Pretty much all videogames are about "role playing" in a broad sense.
Few however live up to the original Dungeons & Dragons turn-based combat
+ stats and leveling up.
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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nemesis <nam### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> Pretty much all videogames are about "role playing" in a broad sense.
> Few however live up to the original Dungeons & Dragons turn-based combat
> + stats and leveling up.
"live up to the original..."?
The irony about this all is that what most computer players consider
"role-playing elements" was actually adapted by D&D from the older "fantasy
wargames" genre to combine with *actual* role-playing - of which the majority
of computer games have virtually *nothing*.
So a more fitting term for this trait in computer games would be "fantasy
wargames elements".
I'd say role-playing in computer games starts where you are free to address
quests by significantly different means (e.g. stealth vs. brute force vs.
wits), *and* this subsequently affects other characters' behavior towards you.
A good start in this respect, IMO, are games like "The Guild", in which you can
make friends and enemies among the AI characters, may get charged for crimes,
and stuff like that...
*That* is what I'd consider "role-playing" in computer games - not exact
simulation of the D&D combat & skills system.
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clipka wrote:
> I'd say role-playing in computer games starts where you are free to address
> quests by significantly different means (e.g. stealth vs. brute force vs.
> wits), *and* this subsequently affects other characters' behavior towards you.
Yep. Deus Ex was a prime example of this. I think Black&White tried to do
something like this, but the game was so lacking I never got past the
mid-point, so it's hard to say.
> A good start in this respect, IMO, are games like "The Guild", in which you can
> make friends and enemies among the AI characters, may get charged for crimes,
> and stuff like that...
I'll have to see about that one.
> *That* is what I'd consider "role-playing" in computer games - not exact
> simulation of the D&D combat & skills system.
Exactly my original point. I was trying to figure out why Bioshock was an
RPG and Half-Life was a FPS, and someone somewhere mentioned you can improve
your skills in Bioshock, and buy better versions of skills, and I twigged.
"D&D is an RPG. D&D has level-ups. Hence, RPGs have level-ups." Bzzt.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
back to version 1.0."
"We've done that already. We call it 2.0."
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