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Warp <war### [at] tag povrayorg> wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > Jim Henderson wrote:
> > > Now as to whether MJ was a genius or not, well, personally, I don't think
> > > so. His music always struck me as rubbish pop. But that's just my
> > > tastes against his style.
>
> > I think it's not unreasonable to look to the dozens of other famous
> > performers and composers who cited him as inspirational and geniusly talented.
>
> I must admit I haven't looked if MJ composed his songs himself, or whether
> he just performed them. AFAIK he personally composed at least *some* (if not
> most) of the songs he performed.
>
> IMO regardless of whether or not one *likes* the songs in question, one
> cannot reasonably claim that they don't show compositional talent. Many of
> the songs are quite complex in structure and content. So complex in fact,
> that it can be very difficult for the average person to perform them even
> nearly as well as he did. Yet they still manage to be good-sounding and
> catchy.
>
> The music of the songs is also often complex and well-composed, IMO.
> If you tried to play them eg. with a guitar, it would be quite difficult.
> I'm thinking about songs like Billie Jean, Beat It and Black Or White.
Yes, excellent response.
No, I don't think he was the composer, he was mainly a lyricist and performer.
Perhaps melody and basic harmonic progression was his doing, but the detailing
and complexity of the arrangements and orchestration was left to real
musicians, like Quincy Jones and special guests like Eddie Van Halen or Paul
McCartney.
Regardless, I never said he was a musical genius -- while I truly do enjoy some
of his songs from a musical standpoint alone. He was a performatic genius,
whatever that means. He's also pretty much an embodiment of the 80's and left
a huge influence on whatever came after, specially on street dance.
I'm mostly a music snob, but having met Michael before the classicals may be
what has proven his music so enduring with me. I still find his offerings much
better than most of the majority of pop music.
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On 06/28/09 13:11, Darren New wrote:
> John VanSickle wrote:
>> And let us all learn from it: Don't be a s**t to your kids (MJ's dad
>> reportedly was), and don't surround yourself with sycophants (which MJ
>> clearly did).
>
> Funny enough, all his actual close friends all thought he was a great,
> kind, funny guy. It's only those who wanted something from him that
> called him out.
I think his point was that MJ surrounded himself with people who liked
him, and he'd get quite upset at those who'd criticize (legitimately)
his ways and habits, and probably wouldn't maintain ties with those people.
In other words, he didn't have an effective feedback mechanism from
which he could gauge how he was doing.
(I'm not, BTW, talking about kids - more about his inability to take
control of finances, medications, and some personality aspects).
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On 06/28/09 13:54, somebody wrote:
>> Here I disagree with you. Courts have nothing to do with it. I feel
>> that for serious charges, judgment should be suspended until there _is_
>> enough data to declare it.
>
> My mind does not work in a binary manner (gratefully).
My paragraph did not imply a need to be binary.
>> See above paragraph. I personally need more data of being a racist
>> before coming to a conclusion that someone indeed is a racist.
>
> Do you believe that it's all black and white? That if MR crossed a certain
> treshold (say, 12 episodes of racist rants per year) that you'd consider him
> a racist, but anything below that you would not? Can you honestly say even a
> single episode will not change your mind about him just a little bit?
Nope. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I need a certain threshold before I will even _consider_ whether
someone is a racist. That's not being binary.
My threshold isn't "one incident" (at least in MR's case).
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On 06/28/09 13:27, Darren New wrote:
> Great sig, btw. :-)
>
> Do Not Attempt to Traverse a Chasm in Two Leaps...
>
> /\ /\ /\ /
> / \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
Thanks. Don't recall where I got it from...
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On 06/28/09 13:15, Darren New wrote:
> somebody wrote:
>> shopping mall, and you'll instantly have a swarm of adoring females. You
>> won't see any similar flocking behaviour from men
>
>
> And, uh, which camp does MJ fall into, then? Not that I'm being totally
> serious, but given how many people make fun of him for his femininity...
Well, hope no one minds the resumption of MJ jokes, but here's one I
saw on Reddit. For context, people there often complain about things
like missing white females get a lot more press and collective worry
than missing black men.
A: Oh suuure. Rich white lady dies of a heart attack and the media is
all over it. What if this was a black man?
B: Only in America can a poor black man grow up to be a rich white woman!
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:06:19 -0400, Warp wrote:
> one
> cannot reasonably claim that they don't show compositional talent.
Well, I disagree. Most pop music in and of itself consists of very
simple rhythm and not a lot of musical ingenuity, based on what I've
heard.
Jim
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On 06/28/09 13:38, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> It isn't, however, illegal. And I suspect it's not even
> "universally"
>> inappropriate (in terms of all of humanity).
>
> Um, some of the things he was accused of are in fact illegal. That's why
> he went to court.
I know - I was, however, referring to what we *know* rather than what
he's been accused of.
> Well, you're entitled to do that. I would deem those parents
> irresponsible at least to just think that it's OK to let their kids sleep
> over with him because he's a star. It's naive to think that the stage
Well, I think anyone who thinks it's OK to let their kids sleep over
anyone's house merely due to stardom is irresponsible to an extent (not
enough for the law, though).
But was that the case? The parents had not spent time with MJ?
> Those who were willing to let their kids stay with him when they didn't
> know about him as a *person* might just as well have left their kids with
> some other stranger. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean that
Do you know that the parents didn't know him personally?
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On 06/28/09 14:16, somebody wrote:
> Correct. But *I* (as well the rest of society) can very well judge people
> for what I think they think.
We all know you *can*. That was never under dispute.
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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On 06/28/09 14:06, Warp wrote:
> I must admit I haven't looked if MJ composed his songs himself, or whether
> he just performed them. AFAIK he personally composed at least *some* (if not
> most) of the songs he performed.
Looking at the Thriller album, he did write some of the songs (at least
the lyrics). Beat It and Billie Jean were written by him, for example.
Some others as well.
Looking at Bad, he wrote Bad, Smooth Criminal, and a bunch of others
from that album.
Too lazy to look at the rest. But it is clear that he did write some of
his big hits.
--
For a while, she had a boyfriend with a wooden leg. Then she broke it off.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> Well, I disagree. Most pop music in and of itself consists of very
> simple rhythm and not a lot of musical ingenuity, based on what I've
> heard.
Musical ingenuity does not necessarily have to be measured in technical
terms. There's also the subjective component to it.
Even a simple tune can be really catchy. If someone composes such a tune,
one could argue that's music ingenuity at work.
--
- Warp
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