Jim Charter wrote:
> We can't really see what led up to the first tasering but the second 
> seemed quite redundant, almost like he was being punished with the 
> second shot for writhing due to the first shot?

He was shot the second time because the police wanted to handcuff him, told 
him to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to fight and kick.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

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> He was shot the second time because the police wanted to handcuff him, 
> told him to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to fight and 
> kick.

Yeah, but he was drunk out of his mind, and they've charged him with
assault for rolling around on the ground. He was much too drunk to
understand the orders he was being given.

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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:4a384f80@news.povray.org...

> No, really. You probably posted the same URL twice by mistake.

     Dang, I did, my bad. Here's the YT version: http://tinyurl.com/lqmslk


     ~Steve~

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Hey, why don't they cuff their legs anyway? I mean you really aren't going 
anywhere if they could do that. The woman officer at the end of the vid (on 
the left holding his feet) had plenty of chance to do that.

     ~Steve~

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> Hey, why don't they cuff their legs anyway? I mean you really aren't going
> anywhere if they could do that. The woman officer at the end of the vid (on
> the left holding his feet) had plenty of chance to do that.

Perhaps the cuffs are only designed for wrists and don't easily fit around
ankles. Especially if he's a big guy.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> He was shot the second time because the police wanted to handcuff him, told 
> him to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to fight and kick.

  Unfortunately many police officers are taught *wrongly* that a taser is
non-lethal and harmless, and that it can be used more or less freely even
for the smallest sign of resistance. This regardless of the ample amount of
examples of people having been killed with a taser. In some cases the victim
wasn't even acting all that violently that it needed such a drastic measure,
as demonstrated by some actual video footage. It's just that the police
officers have been taught to freely use the tasers whenever they want.

  It's the same thing with pepper spray. That is also taught as a non-lethal,
harmless substance. However, pepper spray can damage eyes and cause all kinds
of other damage. I don't know if anyone has died as a consequence, but I
wouldn't be surprised.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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St. wrote:
>      Dang, I did, my bad. 

No problem. It looks pretty clear they're trying to cuff him (the guy 
without the taser has cuffs in his hands) and it still takes 4 people to get 
the cuffs on him, so it doesn't really seem excessive to me. He didn't look 
"incapacitated" to me.

I take it the UK tends to be much gentler, given that they actually 
criticize the police for punching the guy on the shoulder to try to get him 
to let them cuff him. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

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Tim Attwood wrote:
> Yeah, but he was drunk out of his mind, and they've charged him with
> assault for rolling around on the ground. He was much too drunk to
> understand the orders he was being given.

So what would you do?  Sit down with him and talk nice until he sobers up? 
You're basically saying he's so drunk he's unable to control himself or 
understand the police, and he's out in public? That sounds dangerous enough 
to arrest him right there.

I mean, seriously, that would be great. It would be most excellent if the 
cops gave drunk drivers a ride home instead of arresting them.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

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>> Yeah, but he was drunk out of his mind, and they've charged him with
>> assault for rolling around on the ground. He was much too drunk to
>> understand the orders he was being given.
>
> So what would you do?  Sit down with him and talk nice until he sobers up? 
> You're basically saying he's so drunk he's unable to control himself or 
> understand the police, and he's out in public? That sounds dangerous 
> enough to arrest him right there.
>
> I mean, seriously, that would be great. It would be most excellent if the 
> cops gave drunk drivers a ride home instead of arresting them.

The taser was developed as an alternative to the use of deadly force.
As such it should be used in situations where it would have been OK
to shoot the suspect. Being tasered multiple times results in an
increased chance of sudden death.

I'm not an expert in police methods, but it seems like dogpile and
pry his arms behind his back with nightsticks would have been
the right thing to do.

Amnesty International seems concerned about excess taser use...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/taser-abuse/page.do?id=1021202

And it seems to me that with all the concern about water-boarding
terrorists, tasering people until they do what you say counts as torture.

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Tim Attwood wrote:
> The taser was developed as an alternative to the use of deadly force.

Fair enough.

> I'm not an expert in police methods, but it seems like dogpile and
> pry his arms behind his back with nightsticks would have been
> the right thing to do.

Probably, if there were enough officers around. Dogpiles have hurt people 
too. Someone is in a coma from being tackled and hitting his head, for 
example. (Made the news because said someone wasn't actually the criminal 
but someone the police mistook for the fleeing criminal when the victim 
pointed at him or some such.)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Insanity is a small city on the western
   border of the State of Mind.

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