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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
>> Interestingly, it was
>> upheld because profession isn't one of the things you're disallowed from
>> discriminating against.
>
> That sounds quite unconstitutional. Well at least by our constitution.
Could be, yes. In the US, anti-discrimination laws list the features for
which you're not allowed to discriminate. For example
"The Fair Housing Act declares a national policy of fair housing throughout
the United States. The law makes illegal any discrimination in the sale,
lease or rental of housing, or making housing otherwise unavailable, because
of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin."
"The Equal Credit Opportunity Act makes discrimination unlawful with respect
to any aspect of a credit application on the basis of race, color, religion,
national origin, sex, marital status, age or because all or part of the
applicant's income derives from any public assistance program."
So technically, you're allowed to tell someone they're not allowed to buy a
house in the retirement community if they're only 25 years old, for example,
because age isn't one of the "protected categories."
> Here you can't discriminate against anyone without a very good reason
> which can be justified. Refusing to sell a house to someone because he is
> a lawyer is certainly not such a good reason.
You could argue it is. Having a lawyer in the community is expensive,
because they get free legal advice. Indeed, that was why the rule was
instituted: everyone living there voted to exclude lawyers so they wouldn't
have to pay for frivolous lawsuits.
We had a similar problem here: the community had planned to add a
playground. We knew it a year before our house was done being built, and
signed all kinds of papers saying we knew it and accepted it. The house near
the playground was finished six months after we moved in. A lawyer bought
it, and within a month had filed a lawsuit to try to stop the playground
from being built.
> (One could ask what would be a "very good reason which can be justified"
> to discriminate against anyone. Well, one good example is movie casting:
> If the movie needs a young man for a role, it's logical that they would
> hire a young man, rather than an old woman.)
Here we've even had lawsuits where men sued because they couldn't get hired
to work at a topless restaurant. (I.e., a "hooters" type place.)
I always wondered what would happen if a black man sued some group like the
KKK for not hiring him as a receptionist or some such. Would that be "fair"?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I don't know if Windows can use it, but from Linux I use gnupod and it
> doesn't care about the iPod being paired with one and only one computer.
Note that no free software* in the world can currently interact with the
music database of devices running iPhone OS 2.0 or later.
* (I didn't say "freeware", I mean it in the FSF way; although I doubt there
is any proprietary-but-gratis software that can do it, either)
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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>>> Likely the license terms are that they not be sold abroad -
>>> particularly back to the US. The reasoning makes sense.
>> Then the question becomes who is violating the license, and when?
>
> The person who sold it to me (online). Occasionally, these books are
> shipped from abroad, but most of the time they're being sold within the
> US. Either way, the seller knows where he's shipping to.
But you're saying the seller is in the US also? Sure, if he's in India and
mailing you books to the US, I can see that. I was talking about the people
who buy them in India, carry them to the US, and then sell them to others in
the US. Potentially someone without any contract with the original publisher.
I imagine the book store has a contract with the original publisher in which
they agree not to sell them overseas. That's a bit different than what I'm
talking about.
>> Can the publisher enforce on me a contract by printing it inside the
>> book? Am I required by US law to uphold a contract in India? Are you
>> breaking Indian law by buying a book in the US sold to you in the US?
>
> 1. At least for the Indian books, it's usually listed either on the
> front or back cover. Don't recall for the Korean ones...
Whichever. The point is that for it to be a contract, I have to agree to it.
You can't just print something and say "Ha, gotcha!"
> 2. That's why I said I don't know the legal implications. It's a
> violation in Indian law, but I don't know about US law.
Yeah, that's what I was asking. You'd have to have a specific law in the US,
not just some random pseudo-contract printed on the outside of the book.
> 3. I doubt it. The condition says "not to be sold", not "not to be
> bought". I wasn't informed in advance that there was a condition on it,
> so I don't see why I should be liable.
Right. I was just wondering if I went to India, bought a bunch of books off
the shelf, stuck it in my luggage, came back to the US, and sold them,
whether it would be breaking any laws, and if so, whose laws and when?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: iPod / Music Industry / J-pop / Gripe!
Date: 5 Jun 2009 12:25:02
Message: <4a2946de@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
> Surely to store, index and deliver every song in the world on each
> iTunes server is going to cost more than just the "locally selected"
> catalogue?
Perhaps. Probably not noticably.
You're also confusing "sell what I have anywhere in the world" with "sell
what anyone has anywhere in the world". If I have to go to iTunes Japan to
buy the song, Japan doesn't need a catalog of US songs and vice versa. But
it doesn't cost (technologically speaking) Japan any more to sell to me in
the US than it does to sell to their own customers.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:58:57 -0300, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I don't know if Windows can use it, but from Linux I use gnupod and it
>> doesn't care about the iPod being paired with one and only one
>> computer.
>
> Note that no free software* in the world can currently interact with the
> music database of devices running iPhone OS 2.0 or later.
>
> * (I didn't say "freeware", I mean it in the FSF way; although I doubt
> there is any proprietary-but-gratis software that can do it, either)
Yeah, Apple changed the hashing algorithm again and started issuing DMCA
takedown notices for sites that disclose information about the hash,
apparently.
I really like my Mini and if I could get Rockbox to work with my in-car
player as well as my iHome, I'd ditch the Apple firmware permanently. My
next mp3 player will probably not be an iPod (or from Apple) because of
the heavy-handed tactics they're using.
Jim
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Darren New wrote:
> I always wondered what would happen if a black man sued some group like
> the KKK for not hiring him as a receptionist or some such. Would that be
> "fair"?
1. It's fairly easy to get around such requirements, if need be.
2. I doubt the KKK is officially an employer, so it doesn't apply.
--
Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Darren New wrote:
>> The person who sold it to me (online). Occasionally, these books are
>> shipped from abroad, but most of the time they're being sold within the
>> US. Either way, the seller knows where he's shipping to.
>
> But you're saying the seller is in the US also? Sure, if he's in India
I'm saying the one who shipped is in the US. As in it was shipped from
within the US, and that's how it's listed (with a few exceptions) on
places like Amazon - shipped from Florida, etc.
> and mailing you books to the US, I can see that. I was talking about the
> people who buy them in India, carry them to the US, and then sell them
> to others in the US. Potentially someone without any contract with the
> original publisher.
Well, you asked who was violating the license - not who was violating
the law.<G> My point was that whoever sells it outside of India is
violating the license. Whether it is legal or not is another story.
>> 1. At least for the Indian books, it's usually listed either on the
>> front or back cover. Don't recall for the Korean ones...
>
> Whichever. The point is that for it to be a contract, I have to agree to
> it. You can't just print something and say "Ha, gotcha!"
Well, as you said - actual bookstores in India probably know about it
and are bound by it. I suppose if I were to resell it, I could claim
that I didn't know of the terms prior to purchase, so I can't be bound
by it.
I don't really know. Lots of books (e.g. novels) have a notice inside
prohibiting the owner from reproducing, and even selling (or at least
the ones I read as a kid prohibited selling). I don't get to know those
terms prior to purchase. Perhaps they wouldn't stand up in court.
>> 2. That's why I said I don't know the legal implications. It's a
>> violation in Indian law, but I don't know about US law.
>
> Yeah, that's what I was asking. You'd have to have a specific law in the
> US, not just some random pseudo-contract printed on the outside of the
> book.
Isn't it possible certain international laws/agreements could cover
this? I think it could get a bit messier given that the owner of the
copyright is almost always a company/individual who does reside within
the US.
I always wondered about this with regard to movies. Some non-English
movies have never been officially released in the US - nor have they
ever had English releases. (e.g. Talvisota for you Finns). Some of these
movies are considered classics in their countries (I assume - they have
high IMDB ratings).
So if I find some independent retail store selling these movies in the
US, is the seller breaking a law within the US? Let's assume that
whoever owns the rights to a movie has no official presence in the US
(i.e. no office, not registered any trademarks, etc).
Some of these movies are available via p2p, and people have created
subtitle files for them. Could I be liable for downloading them?
Note that over here it's not the case that they're intentionally
restricting the market. They just never went through the trouble...
> Right. I was just wondering if I went to India, bought a bunch of books
> off the shelf, stuck it in my luggage, came back to the US, and sold
> them, whether it would be breaking any laws, and if so, whose laws and
> when?
Same answer as above - may depend on treaties. And given that the
"original" licensor is in the US, it may have implications.
Perhaps the company over here could sue for damages. A law need not be
broken for it to be a valid lawsuit, right? (I'm asking seriously).
--
Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> I don't really know. Lots of books (e.g. novels) have a notice inside
> prohibiting the owner from reproducing, and even selling
In the US, we have the "first sale" doctrine. It says that if I buy a copy
of a copyrighted work, it's mine to do with as I please. Publishers were
trying to make it illegal to sell used books here, and the courts said
"Nope, that's not copying. The buyer owns the copy. You don't get to control
what happens after."
So that's kind of where I'm coming from.
I should probably take a class to brush up on this stuff, tho, since the
laws have changed so much here since I learned about it.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: iPod / Music Industry / J-pop / Gripe!
Date: 5 Jun 2009 22:31:48
Message: <4a29d514@news.povray.org>
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On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:06:40 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> I always wondered what would happen if a black man sued some group like
>> the KKK for not hiring him as a receptionist or some such. Would that
>> be "fair"?
>
> 1. It's fairly easy to get around such requirements, if need be.
>
> 2. I doubt the KKK is officially an employer, so it doesn't apply.
Well, they probably are considered some sort of non-profit organization
(IIRC, they are considered a fraternal organization with officers), but I
think they would be required by law to have an employer ID number if they
paid their officers a salary.
Jim
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Darren New wrote:
> Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>> I don't really know. Lots of books (e.g. novels) have a notice inside
>> prohibiting the owner from reproducing, and even selling
>
> In the US, we have the "first sale" doctrine. It says that if I buy a
> copy of a copyrighted work, it's mine to do with as I please. Publishers
> were trying to make it illegal to sell used books here, and the courts
> said "Nope, that's not copying. The buyer owns the copy. You don't get
> to control what happens after."
Perhaps that's why I seem to remember reading it as a kid (or in old
novels) and perhaps not these days.
--
"Once again, Mr. Cutlet fulfilled the sacred oath of the public
educator: To take an inherently fun activity, and sap it of every ounce
of pleasure."
-- Kevin Arnold in "Wonder Years".
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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