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Invisible wrote:
> I've yet to meet anybody who thinks MS's prices are reasonable. (OTOH,
> everybody wants things to be cheaper, so I guess that's not saying a lo
t.)
No. You know *lots* of people who think it's reasonable. You've also met
lots of people who would rather pay less.
Everyone at your office who actually bought Microsoft products thinks the
price was reasonable.
> Windows itself usually doesn't crash much if at all, provided you're
> careful with it. But Office? I've seen it crash more than 18 times per
> day. :-P
Aren't you running the one that's like ten years old? Office 97 or somet
hing?
> Also...
>
> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/123456
>
> M$ Office 2007, full package, £350.
If you buy it one-off, it's pretty expensive. But given that you're buyin
g
something like 8 programs, it's not all that bad. And it does a lot more
than Nero does. If you really need a business contact manager, then a
half-day's pay for software that handles all your business presentation
needs isn't that bad.
> If you think that's "cheap", then good for you.
It is for a professional.
> To me, that seems seriously steep.
You're not a professional.
> Hell, the super-dupa-ultra-mega edition of Nero only
> costs £40 or so, and everybody complains about how over-priced tha
t is.
Except, you know, the people who are professionals at producing CDs, perh
aps.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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From: Mike Raiford
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 12:52:11
Message: <49833e4b$1@news.povray.org>
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Darren New wrote:
>> M$ Office 2007, full package, £350.
>
> If you buy it one-off, it's pretty expensive. But given that you're
> buying something like 8 programs, it's not all that bad. And it does a
> lot more than Nero does. If you really need a business contact manager,
> then a half-day's pay for software that handles all your business
> presentation needs isn't that bad.
>
Compared to Photo$hop it's darned cheap..
--
~Mike
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 13:59:50
Message: <49834e26@news.povray.org>
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:55:16 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> I'm guessing the first time she visits a site that demands ActiveX...?
>>
>> Outside of Microsoft-owned sites, there are sites that still use
>> ActiveX? Really?
>>
>> I don't run into them *ever* unless I'm downloading something from the
>> MSDN site.
>
> The server administration console for Trend Micro requires ActiveX, for
> example. (Not that this matters to a home user. I'm pretty sure I've
> seen various Internet equipment or ISP websites that also demand ActiveX
> though.)
Well, like you said, that's not a public website, nor is it one I'm
likely to need to use myself.
> I'm drawing a blank on real "websites" that require ActiveX, but I think
> there are a few outside M$.
Probably not many, though - for anyone who wants to be cross-platform
compatible (including being usable by Mac users), they'd have to avoid it.
Jim
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 14:01:40
Message: <49834e94$1@news.povray.org>
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:53:28 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> I'm guessing also that a lot of those pointless Flash games and
>>> similar only work well in IE.
>>
>> Um, not if they're Flash games....Flash runs in Firefox....
>
> And how much do you want to bet that the entire site markup is only
> tested with IE?
Anyone who designs a website and doesn't run it through a W3C checker is
asking for trouble. Given that Firefox has increased marketshare in the
past year, not working with FF is going to increasingly become more of an
issue for those sites.
That said, I've also not had a problem with *any* of the pointless Flash
games not running on Linux.
But all the professional web developers I use test with multiple browsers
and operating systems.
Jim
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 14:20:55
Message: <49835317$1@news.povray.org>
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>> I've yet to meet anybody who thinks MS's prices are reasonable. (OTOH,
>> everybody wants things to be cheaper, so I guess that's not saying a
>> lot.)
>
> No. You know *lots* of people who think it's reasonable. You've also met
> lots of people who would rather pay less.
>
> Everyone at your office who actually bought Microsoft products thinks
> the price was reasonable.
Everyone at my office who bought Microsoft products bought them with
their PC. :-P
Most people are shocked and dissapointed when I tell them how much the
software costs by itself.
>> Windows itself usually doesn't crash much if at all, provided you're
>> careful with it. But Office? I've seen it crash more than 18 times per
>> day. :-P
>
> Aren't you running the one that's like ten years old? Office 97 or
> something?
We were using Office 97. (And, unsurprisingly, when I was at uni 10
years ago, we were using a 10-year-old Office, yes.) Now we're using
Office 2003 at work. It still glitches, but the people who use it have
gradually figured out tricks to get round it.
>> M$ Office 2007, full package, £350.
>
> If you buy it one-off, it's pretty expensive. But given that you're
> buying something like 8 programs, it's not all that bad. And it does a
> lot more than Nero does. If you really need a business contact manager,
> then a half-day's pay for software that handles all your business
> presentation needs isn't that bad.
>
>> If you think that's "cheap", then good for you.
>
> It is for a professional.
>
>> To me, that seems seriously steep.
>
> You're not a professional.
The trouble with this argument is, the so-called "home" version doesn't
have half the stuff in it that home users want. I got caught out with
this. Some guy wanted to edit a PowerPoint presentation for a local
gathering, so I bought him a copy of Office Home, and... guess what?
This "office" is actually just Word and Excell. That's a hell of a lot
of money just for a buggy wordprocessor and a reasonable spreadsheet.
(I had expected that the home version would just leave out the high-end
stuff like InfoPath that home users won't need. THAT would have made
sense. But no, apparently not...)
>> Hell, the super-dupa-ultra-mega edition of Nero only costs £40 or so,
>> and everybody complains about how over-priced that is.
>
> Except, you know, the people who are professionals at producing CDs,
> perhaps.
I'm pretty sure professionals wouldn't buy a consumer-oriented product
such as Nero. (The premium edition takes over your entire PC in an
almost viral fashion...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 14:23:21
Message: <498353a9@news.povray.org>
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>> Fixing every tiny bug might be infeasible, but you'd think they could
>> at least fix the huge ones.
>
> Like what? That you had *one* document that was corrupt and couldn't be
> opened?
Hahaha. Oh yeah, one document. Because, in the time I've been using
Word, it has only ever screwed up one document. Ha. If only...
> Your hyperbole is amusing. "I hit a bug in Word. Therefore, neither
> performance nor reliability is worth spending *any* time working on."
Have you noticed that every version of Windows/Word/Access/whatever has
been slower than the one before?
I've yet to see anybody complain about Excel crashing (I assume it must
do occasionally), but Word is legendary for its instability. You act
like I'm making this up or something...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Some guy wanted to edit a PowerPoint presentation for a local
> gathering, so I bought him a copy of Office Home, and... guess what?
You didn't read the documentation? I'm pretty sure it's *easy* to figure out
what comes with each version of Office before you buy it, so I think I know
where the "microsoft doesn't document stuff" meme comes from. :-)
> I'm pretty sure professionals wouldn't buy a consumer-oriented product
> such as Nero.
Right. It's *too* cheap. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 14:36:14
Message: <498356ae$1@news.povray.org>
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>>>> I'm guessing also that a lot of those pointless Flash games and
>>>> similar only work well in IE.
>>> Um, not if they're Flash games....Flash runs in Firefox....
>> And how much do you want to bet that the entire site markup is only
>> tested with IE?
>
> Anyone who designs a website and doesn't run it through a W3C checker is
> asking for trouble.
I agree. But we're also talking about the same kinds of sites that use
ActiveX to silently install spyware on your PC while you're playing the
new shiny game, so... ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Have you noticed that every version of Windows/Word/Access/whatever has
> been slower than the one before?
No.
> I've yet to see anybody complain about Excel crashing (I assume it must
> do occasionally), but Word is legendary for its instability. You act
> like I'm making this up or something...
No. I'm acting like some people seem to have no problem with it, and others
seem to have problems all the time. Me, I can't get Linux to work for crap,
even where web sites say its supported. I tend to think I'm just at one end
of a long tail.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 30 Jan 2009 14:40:39
Message: <498357b7@news.povray.org>
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>> Some guy wanted to edit a PowerPoint presentation for a local
>> gathering, so I bought him a copy of Office Home, and... guess what?
>
> You didn't read the documentation?
For my sins, no. I just assumed that "Office Home Edition" would have
the parts of Office that are useful to a home user, without the parts
that only an office worker would want. I was wrong.
> I know where the "microsoft doesn't document stuff" meme comes from. :-)
It's OK. I'm used to people telling me I'm stupid. I've had to put up
with it for my entire life. I guess one more person won't hurt...
>> I'm pretty sure professionals wouldn't buy a consumer-oriented product
>> such as Nero.
>
> Right. It's *too* cheap. :-)
Or rather, professionals don't want wizzy "let me do this trivial
operation for you automatically because you're too stupid" features,
they want stuff that actually makes their job easier and lets them
control what the software does.
Go install Norton Antivirus. Watch as your PC slows down and it pops up
windows every 5 minutes letting you "your PC is at risk" or "an attack
attempt has been blocked". Now go install Symtantec Antivirus Corportate
Edition. Trust me, you'll never even realise it's running. (There's not
even a tray icon.) Different target audiences. (And price tags, as it
happens...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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