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somebody wrote:
> miserable. In fact, I think abiding by ethical principles only when
> convenient is, well, not really much of a virtue, but that's just me. You
Your statement would have value if abiding by ethical principles was a
binary state. Some don't see the world that way.
--
Feet Smell? Nose Run? Hey, you're upside down!
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawaz org<<<<<<
anl
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"Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message
news:493c8410@news.povray.org...
> somebody wrote:
> > miserable. In fact, I think abiding by ethical principles only when
> > convenient is, well, not really much of a virtue, but that's just me.
You
> Your statement would have value if abiding by ethical principles was a
> binary state. Some don't see the world that way.
Fair enough. I freely admit that stealing a loaf of bread whilst starving is
vastly a different proposition than pirating Haskell books, and implied as
much (quoting myself; "...I really cannot imagine a circumstance under which
not pirating Haskell books would cause suffering for me"). In the former
case, I'd say that not stealing the bread is the unethical choice. On the
other hand, software, audio or media piracy doesn't follow from necessity at
all, the sob stories to justify it notwithstanding. It won't cause any sort
of suffering not to have an mp3 of the latest hit, or not to have a copy of
the latest version of Photoshop. It only follows from entitlement mentality,
not of necessity. There are literally millions of web pages with free
information about anything you can imagine, including Haskell, there is
radio, TV, libraries (the brick and mortar kind), OS or free software that
does pretty much anything you are likely to need... etc. Piracy
justification arguments are vacuous for that reason.
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somebody wrote:
> "Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message
> news:493c8410@news.povray.org...
>> somebody wrote:
>
>>> miserable. In fact, I think abiding by ethical principles only when
>>> convenient is, well, not really much of a virtue, but that's just me.
> You
>
>> Your statement would have value if abiding by ethical principles was a
>> binary state. Some don't see the world that way.
>
> Fair enough. I freely admit that stealing a loaf of bread whilst starving is
> vastly a different proposition than pirating Haskell books, and implied as
> much (quoting myself; "...I really cannot imagine a circumstance under which
> not pirating Haskell books would cause suffering for me"). In the former
> case, I'd say that not stealing the bread is the unethical choice. On the
> other hand, software, audio or media piracy doesn't follow from necessity at
> all, the sob stories to justify it notwithstanding. It won't cause any sort
> of suffering not to have an mp3 of the latest hit, or not to have a copy of
> the latest version of Photoshop. It only follows from entitlement mentality,
> not of necessity. There are literally millions of web pages with free
> information about anything you can imagine, including Haskell, there is
> radio, TV, libraries (the brick and mortar kind), OS or free software that
> does pretty much anything you are likely to need... etc. Piracy
> justification arguments are vacuous for that reason.
U try to show urself tolerant and understanding but u don't see the big
picture and when I tried to show to u, u wrote that my ethics has no
much virtue and that utterly I have not valid excuse, yeah... right...
Totalitarian ppl like urself is what causes ppl to have all kinds of
trouble, like dictators for example or closed minded-regimens like
Communist Governments. That is simply not being tolerant or understanding.
I'm not saying I feel guilty, all the contrary, but narrowing the vision
because u assume "u know" my current condition and my Country's
therefore I'm totally guilty is wrong and pretentious assumption from u.
I wrote u once that u don't care enough to imagine less fortunate
conditions than urs and u still don't but u pretend to give me solutions
that are ethically correct and would simply be the "perfect" solution no
mather what I can argument. As I mentioned before u as other "perfect"
Christians (Catholic and Protestants included) are the first to betray
their ethics when things get hard, I laugh at "ethic" and "legal" ppl
claiming how perfect they behave, the higher they are the harder they
fall, I have seen it COUNTLESS times. Ppl that actually sees necessity
where there are some has true ethics and endures even prosper in harsh
times. I'm not one of them but I try to imitate them, I have ethics that
most technicians don't follow coz it's "too good". The only complain
u'll probably find on any of my clients or my Company's clients is that
I'm slow, coz I take 3 times the time to make a PC/Notebook, the fastest
and secured possible today with all the software they're gonna need.
The system tools and utilities I use to make my job are often google
searchs to find the best tools, some of them are freeware, those are
mostly the software I use not the latest mp3 or apps, even I could
EASILY download probably all that I would want. I have ethics, one that
can respect ppl and their property and can put food on my plate for me
and my family. U think what ever u want about it, u don't know me, my
situation and probably don't even know where Bolivia is a World map, let
alone the way of life here or any third world Country for that matter.
But u must be comfortably earning enough money to live and pay ur way
of life in a first world Country with all the things u want at pass of
ur credit card... so typical...
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Invisible wrote:
> Ah yes, Haskell's legendary documentation. It's scattered all over the
> place, half of it is published as academic papers that you and I can't
> access, much of it is written for compiler designers and academics
> rather than actual *programmers* who just want to know how to use the
> thing, and lots of stuff isn't documented _at all_.
>
> For example, laziness can be a bad thing. This is highly non-obvious,
> and it ISN'T EXPLAINED ANYWHERE. If you pop into the IRC channel and ask
> about it, somebody will explain it. But then it's *still* not written
> down for the next newbie who wants to know. It's sort of an oral
> tradition; there are many "well known" techniques, but nobody has
> written any of this stuff down anywhere, making it infuriatingly hard to
> learn about this stuff.
>
>
> ....which neatly demonstrates my point. Programs compiled with GHC
> contain C debugging symbols by default - even though these are
> completely useless in a *Haskell* program. By using a special
> command-line switch, you can "strip" the symbols, making a typical
> program about 200KB smaller. But this isn't written down anywhere; I
> found out about it by chatting to people on IRC.
>
> And yes, Haskell is designed for writing complex algorithms easily. If
> you want *speed*, it's very non-obvious how to do this. There is some
> scattered documentation about it, but currently the most expedient
> method is to post the source code and ask Don to look at it for you. ;-)
> It's the website for a book that just got released and is meant to
> explain all this stuff - not just the language syntax, but how to work
> the compiler, what the best coding strategies are, etc.
>
> I must say, I was very excited about this book, but having actually read
> it now it's out, I'm dissapointed. Still, it's a single *large*,
> coherant body of information, all in one place. That's a step in the
> right direction...
>
It sounds like you are getting / are very involved with Haskell and know
at least more than me about its inner workings.
FWIW Why not start writing some of the things that you just mentioned
down and make them available.
You could provide a web site with simple articles explaining some of
these things.
You could turn it into a <gasp> published book </gasp>.
Tom
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FWIW, I'm more tolerant to some piracy than to people using "u" and "ppl"
and "coz" repeatedly >.<
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"Saul Luizaga" <sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote
[snipped a bunch of ad hominems]
> of life in a first world Country with all the things u want at pass of
> ur credit card... so typical...
If "u" are going to pirate, pirate. That's your business. I doubt that
calling me a totalitarian dictator, communist, uncaring, pretentious,
ignorant... etc, as well as making quick (and wrong) assumptions about my
origins or beliefs will strengthen the argument that it's just fine for
those from the third world to pirate.
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Tom Austin wrote:
> It sounds like you are getting / are very involved with Haskell and know
> at least more than me about its inner workings.
>
> FWIW Why not start writing some of the things that you just mentioned
> down and make them available.
>
> You could provide a web site with simple articles explaining some of
> these things.
>
> You could turn it into a <gasp> published book </gasp>.
I have written one or two small things...
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/332
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/49
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/40
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/37
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/38
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/39
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/34
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/32
...just the odd item. I stopped when I realised that nobody ever reads
any of this stuff, because I am the only human alive who gives a ****
about Haskell.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Tom Austin wrote:
>
>> It sounds like you are getting / are very involved with Haskell and
>> know at least more than me about its inner workings.
>>
>> FWIW Why not start writing some of the things that you just mentioned
>> down and make them available.
>>
>> You could provide a web site with simple articles explaining some of
>> these things.
>>
>> You could turn it into a <gasp> published book </gasp>.
>
> I have written one or two small things...
>
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/332
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/49
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/40
>
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/37
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/38
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/39
>
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/34
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/32
>
> ....just the odd item. I stopped when I realised that nobody ever reads
> any of this stuff, because I am the only human alive who gives a ****
> about Haskell.
>
I see that they are under a blog entry for Haskell.
There are 12 entries - but I bet you could write up a bunch more if you
thought about it.
Now, set up a web site that is dedicated to Haskell.
Web site hosting is cheap & setting up an actual site isn't too hard either.
I am saying this because I believe that your interest in Haskell can do
something for you besides being a nerdy pastime.
I am encouraging you to take something that you enjoy and have a passion
for and make it into something.
Who knows, you may actually be able to contribute some significant material.
Now, if I can only take my own advice.
Tom
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> I see that they are under a blog entry for Haskell.
> There are 12 entries - but I bet you could write up a bunch more if you
> thought about it.
>
> Now, set up a web site that is dedicated to Haskell.
> Web site hosting is cheap & setting up an actual site isn't too hard
> either.
More to the point, I already have a web host. (Guess where my blog is...)
I guess I should work on getting Indoculate working properly again...
Then I can set about writing stuff. ;-)
> Now, if I can only take my own advice.
Well isn't *that* the thing? ;-)
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Invisible wrote:
>> I see that they are under a blog entry for Haskell.
>> There are 12 entries - but I bet you could write up a bunch more if
>> you thought about it.
>>
>> Now, set up a web site that is dedicated to Haskell.
>> Web site hosting is cheap & setting up an actual site isn't too hard
>> either.
>
> More to the point, I already have a web host. (Guess where my blog is...)
>
> I guess I should work on getting Indoculate working properly again...
> Then I can set about writing stuff. ;-)
>
I do believe that you have a wealth of knowledge that others can benefit
from - more than just on a blog or forum.
>> Now, if I can only take my own advice.
>
> Well isn't *that* the thing? ;-)
And having others encourage me and point out some directions makes it
all that much easier.
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