> It is most unlikely that *I* would be the best of the entire pack.

Why not? How many people do you think know Haskell?  If you turned up for 
interview with 4 other people, do you really think they would all also know 
Haskell?  How many of them do you think would have written a working 
function parser (is that what it is called?) like the one you did?  That's 
not trivial stuff.

Wasn't there some job someone posted here a while ago that specifically 
mentioned Haskell?  I'm sure that in the large companies like Nokia, MS, 
Google etc they have plenty of areas where you would fit in perfectly.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> It is most unlikely that *I* would be the best of the entire pack.
> 
> Why not? How many people do you think know Haskell?  If you turned up 
> for interview with 4 other people, do you really think they would all 
> also know Haskell?  How many of them do you think would have written a 
> working function parser (is that what it is called?) like the one you 
> did?  That's not trivial stuff.

Sure. But if I turn out for an interview with 4,000 other people, what 
are the chances that I'm the *only* person who knows Haskell?

> Wasn't there some job someone posted here a while ago that specifically 
> mentioned Haskell?

Yeah. I applied. And I never heard a word in reply...

(But then, it was posted on the Haskell mailing list. There I'm just a 
mino; there are people on that list who comprehend System F and so forth.)

> I'm sure that in the large companies like Nokia, MS, 
> Google etc they have plenty of areas where you would fit in perfectly.

I did actually take a look at Microsoft Research Cambridge the other 
day... but I couldn't figure out what the hell they were talking about. Heh.

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> (I don't know if Google is giving you different result from where you are, 
> but mine says £23k-£24k.)

Oops sorry getting confused with euros and pounds there, mine says 24K 
POUNDS too lol.

> I don't think we've ever had a pay rise that big here. Roughly once every 
> 3 years they add maybe 1.5%. (And oddly, when we get a raise everybody 
> complains...?)

That's terrible, haven't you noticed that the price of everything around you 
is going up by far more than 1.5% every 3 years? So you're actually earning 
LESS now than 6 years ago!

> Well, they did hire me explicitly because they were forced to hire 
> somebody and "I'm cheap". As you say, I'm still here, so why should they 
> pay me any more?

Exactly.  You never know, once you tell them you are leaving for another 
job, they might offer you a pay rise to keep you.  But by the sounds of it 
they would probably just try to get by without replacing you ;-)

> The "traditional" approach seems to be that when you need find the person 
> who's best at their job, and then make them a manager and give them a sack 
> more money.

Usually you choose the person who you think is going to be best at being 
manager, not necessarily (and often not) the best outright technical guy.

> Which I always thought was a bit strange, given that (say) knowing how to 
> diagnose line faults really well isn't particularly correlated with 
> knowing how to manage people...

But being really bad about diagnosing line faults is a far worse situation. 
I guess there are "technical managers" and purely "admin managers". 
Technical managers need to know their stuff well, otherwise what do they say 
when one of their employees has a question?

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> Sure. But if I turn out for an interview with 4,000 other people, what are 
> the chances that I'm the *only* person who knows Haskell?

If a company is interviewing 4000 people they usually have considerably more 
than 1 place up for grabs.

> (But then, it was posted on the Haskell mailing list. There I'm just a 
> mino; there are people on that list who comprehend System F and so forth.)

Yeh, applying for a Haskell job that is posted on the Haskell mailing list 
is perhaps not the most sure way to get a job!  Besides, you didn't have a 
cool updated CV back then like you have now thanks to all our input here :-)

Post a reply to this message

>> I don't think we've ever had a pay rise that big here. Roughly once 
>> every 3 years they add maybe 1.5%. (And oddly, when we get a raise 
>> everybody complains...?)
> 
> That's terrible, haven't you noticed that the price of everything around 
> you is going up by far more than 1.5% every 3 years? So you're actually 
> earning LESS now than 6 years ago!

...and I would notice prices, why? I never buy anything, remember? ;-)

(Well, except petrol. When I got my first car, it used to cost £30 to 
fill it up. Last time I did that, it cost me £60. OUCH!)

But yeah, every time a pay rise is announced, everybody complains about 
it being "a pay cut". Surely *not* getting a rise would be worse??

>> Well, they did hire me explicitly because they were forced to hire 
>> somebody and "I'm cheap". As you say, I'm still here, so why should 
>> they pay me any more?
> 
> Exactly.  You never know, once you tell them you are leaving for another 
> job, they might offer you a pay rise to keep you.  But by the sounds of 
> it they would probably just try to get by without replacing you ;-)

Heh. Part of me wants to see the look on their stupid faces when they 
find out how much a "normal" technical expert wants to be paid to do the 
job I do. ;-)

But hey, I'm sure they'll find a monkey who can do the job on my salary. 
I doubt they'll be as good as me, but will the company care?

(We're talking about the company that paid for a support contract from a 
firm who's employees clearly haven't got a clue how to fix an air 
conditioning system. When we called them out, they spent 2 hours 
standing outside playing football!)

>> The "traditional" approach seems to be that when you need find the 
>> person who's best at their job, and then make them a manager and give 
>> them a sack more money.
> 
> Usually you choose the person who you think is going to be best at being 
> manager, not necessarily (and often not) the best outright technical guy.

This would make far more sense. As I understand it, being a manager is 
primarily about people skills.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> Sure. But if I turn out for an interview with 4,000 other people, what 
>> are the chances that I'm the *only* person who knows Haskell?
> 
> If a company is interviewing 4000 people they usually have considerably 
> more than 1 place up for grabs.

True. But it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere popular had 4,000 
applications and only a handful of actual vacancies. How many people 
apply to Nokia just in case they're hiring?

> Yeh, applying for a Haskell job that is posted on the Haskell mailing 
> list is perhaps not the most sure way to get a job!  Besides, you didn't 
> have a cool updated CV back then like you have now thanks to all our 
> input here :-)

So true! ;-)

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Invisible wrote:
> Sure. But if I turn out for an interview with 4,000 other people, what
> are the chances that I'm the *only* person who knows Haskell?

What are the chances they'd choose only ONE person out of 4000 in such an
interview?

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>> That Haskell parser thing I don't even remember the name of. I understood
>> it without even knowing Haskell. I insist: put that in the Haskell wiki!
> 
> Oh, you *liked* Parsec, eh?

Not quite, more like I liked your explanation of it.

Post a reply to this message

"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:492299cf$1@news.povray.org...

> I'll tell you why I put up with it: I have no choice. Unfortunately nobody 
> else is willing to even interview much less employ me. And I *need* money. 
> So no matter how angry I am, no matter how miserably it makes me, I have 
> to stay here.
>
> And you know what? It really sucks. Big style.
>
> I hate my life.

   Oh, be quiet. You're lucky because you have *time* to CHANGE IT!

   You're not that far from Northamton are you? Go for this job, they want 
someone quickly:

    http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=42113428&Location=32

   Look at what they're willing to pay - if you're lucky in the interview, 
you might just get the job and that money, and if you think that the 
interviewer is trying to fob you off or it's not sounding promising, then 

resort.

  If I was in your position right now, Northampton is where I'd be heading.

     ~Steve~

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>> Oh, you *liked* Parsec, eh?
> 
> Not quite, more like I liked your explanation of it.

Yay, me! :-D

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