Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> ....still not found a way to compile things yet...

It's the little icon on the toolbar that looks like a birthday cake, at 
least on the 2005 version. (I don't know why it looks like a birthday cake.

Isn't there a "build" menu when you open the "solution"?

You know, "create new project", then pick the type (like console), then 
type in the "hello world" program where it belongs, then "build" and 
then "run"?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Hmm, you really have to do stuff in *exactly* the order it wants, don't 
> you? Man this thing's inflexible!

Uh, like what?  But yeah, a lot of Microsoft stuff can be like that. I 
don't really remember that to be the case in VS. Maybe getting something 
set up in the first place the first time is more tedious than I remember.

> Clearly this thing is designed for programs *way* bigger than "Hello 
> World". I can't help thinking that if Hello World is all you're trying 
> to write, this is massive overkill. 

Yep. The full-blown product has stuff like automated unit testing built 
in, and even the cheap $99 version has stuff like automated source 
control built in.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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>> ....still not found a way to compile things yet...
> 
> It's the little icon on the toolbar that looks like a birthday cake, at 
> least on the 2005 version. (I don't know why it looks like a birthday cake.
> 
> Isn't there a "build" menu when you open the "solution"?

Yeah, there was a build button, but disabled.

> You know, "create new project", then pick the type (like console), then 
> type in the "hello world" program where it belongs, then "build" and 
> then "run"?

Yeah, that's just it - I hadn't figured out that you must create a 
"project" before you can compile anything. ;-) It lets you edit source 
code just fine without one, but won't actually compile anything.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Hmm, you really have to do stuff in *exactly* the order it wants, 
>> don't you? Man this thing's inflexible!
> 
> Uh, like what?

Like if you go File > New > File... and then select "CPP File", it 
doesn't add it to the current project. (And opens the file browser in a 
random spot.) You must instead right-click on the "Source Files" node of 
the current project and select "Add item..." and select "CPP File", and 
*then* it automatically puts the file in the correct place, adds it to 
the project, and lets you compile and run it. Sheesh!

> But yeah, a lot of Microsoft stuff can be like that.

Yeah. I remember the self-same thing with Visual J++ Studio, 10 years 
ago! ;-)

>> Clearly this thing is designed for programs *way* bigger than "Hello 
>> World". I can't help thinking that if Hello World is all you're trying 
>> to write, this is massive overkill. 
> 
> Yep. The full-blown product has stuff like automated unit testing built 
> in, and even the cheap $99 version has stuff like automated source 
> control built in.

Ooo, I *so* must buy that!!!1!eleven!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Like if you go File > New > File... and then select "CPP File", it 
> doesn't add it to the current project. (And opens the file browser in a 
> random spot.) You must instead right-click on the "Source Files" node of 
> the current project and select "Add item..." and select "CPP File", and 
> *then* it automatically puts the file in the correct place, adds it to 
> the project, and lets you compile and run it. Sheesh!

Oh, yeah, OK. But you can also add files that aren't in the project. So 
if you create a CPP file that's outside the "solution", you can then 
choose to add it to the solution later.  Not really an "out of order" 
problem so much as a "too many choices" problem. :-)

> Yeah. I remember the self-same thing with Visual J++ Studio, 10 years 
> ago! ;-)

I was thinking stuff like installing interrelated packages, drivers, etc.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Yeah, that's just it - I hadn't figured out that you must create a 
> "project" before you can compile anything. ;-) It lets you edit source 
> code just fine without one, but won't actually compile anything.

They may have made it more complicated in the 2008 version or something. 
The 2005 version has a big button saying "create new project" and you 
have to go into the menus and such to find the "create a file that I 
don't know how to compile" part. ;-)

But yeah, it's a big and complex tool. It'll take a day or two to learn 
how it works.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Oh... cool.

According to "Thinking in C++", you can use the keywords "and", "or" and 
"not" in place of symbols. GCC accepts this. However, Visual C++ doesn't 
seem to like it.

I just took the program source code and handed it, unmodified, to GCC. 
It compiled immediately. Yet Visual C++ complains about "not" being an 
"undeclared identifier". Goodie.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:

> But yeah, it's a big and complex tool. It'll take a day or two to learn 
> how it works.

Tell me about it! I just discovered that adding a breakpoint doesn't 
actually do anything - you have to add a breakpoint *and* turn it on. o_O

WTF? I ask you...!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:28:44 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> you can use the keywords "and", "or" and "not" in place of symbols.

Don't. Not all compilers support this, and very few programmers are  
accustomed to it.



> However, Visual C++ doesn't seem to like it.

This one in particular does not by default.

You can make it support it by checking the option "Disable language  
extensions" which you probably should anyway.



-- 
FE

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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:28:44 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> you can use the keywords "and", "or" and "not" in place of symbols.
> 
> Don't. Not all compilers support this, and very few programmers are 
> accustomed to it.

According to the tutorial, "if your compiler does not support this, it 
is not a standards-compliant C++ compiler". (I'm only saying what the 
tutorial says; I have no idea if that's correct or not.)

I keep trying to sort out in my head which combination of symbols mean 
bitwise operations and which ones mean logical operations. Using names 
makes the difference clear. (To me anyway.) Of course, none of this 
helps with trying to read other people's code.

(Now Haskell also uses symbols for both. However, in Haskell, if you try 
to perform logical operations on numbers, you get a type error, and vice 
versa. Unfortunately C++ inherits C's braindead "hey, if you can 
represent it as an unstructured bit pattern, it's an int, right?" 
mentallity.)

>> However, Visual C++ doesn't seem to like it.
> 
> This one in particular does not by default.
> 
> You can make it support it by checking the option "Disable language 
> extensions" which you probably should anyway.

Uh-huh. Yeah, I'll be doing that. I'd like to write code that will 
compile everywhere. ;-)

Who'd have thought? An M$ product bending the standard slightly... 
</sarcasm>

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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