Darren New wrote:
> http://iphoneappreviews.org/mach-dice-holographic-dice-simulator/

Woah.

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> Interesting. I was told (I mean, this was a while ago) that if you sign up 
> to an expensive monthly contract, they throw in the handset for free,

Yes, usually, and the handsets you can choose from will be determined by the 
contract.  Obviously if they are only going to get 15 GBP from you for 12 
months they are not going to offer you a 400 GBP handset for free.

> but if you buy the handset on its own, it's hundreds of pounds.

For certain handsets, yes, but there have always been cheaper ones.

> Also, what's with all these "locked" phones? What's all that about?

The phone will only work with a SIM card from a certain network, so you 
can't take out your vodafone SIM card and put in an O2 one.  Usually allows 
you to buy the phone cheaper, as the network it is locked to can expect more 
money from you than if they sold you an unlocked phone.  Of course some 
phones can be unlocked (although this is getting harder and harder recently) 
so you might be able to buy a cheap subsidised phone, unlock it, then either 
use it with another (cheaper) network, or sell the handset on ebay ;-)

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> Yeah. When 96%+ of the households are already wired for land lines, it's 
> pretty cheap to get a land line connection.

But then how much do you have to pay monthly just to keep the land line 
connection turned on?  Here it's usually between 5 and 20 euros.  On the 
other hand, most mobile phone operators will sell you a SIM card for some 
very small amount (usually 10-20 euros) that then only requires that you pay 
for exactly the calls you make, no monthly charges or any other costs (apart 
from buying a handset initially of course).  If you don't make many calls, 
the mobile phone option works out much cheaper.

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>> Interesting. I was told (I mean, this was a while ago) that if you 
>> sign up to an expensive monthly contract, they throw in the handset 
>> for free,
> 
> Yes, usually, and the handsets you can choose from will be determined by 
> the contract.  Obviously if they are only going to get 15 GBP from you 
> for 12 months they are not going to offer you a 400 GBP handset for free.




>> but if you buy the handset on its own, it's hundreds of pounds.
> 
> For certain handsets, yes, but there have always been cheaper ones.

OK. Well it's only what I've heard - that you *must* sign up to a 
contract otherwise the handset you need to access the network is 
impossibly expensive. I don't know if that was ever the case or if the 
person in question just got their facts wrong...

>> Also, what's with all these "locked" phones? What's all that about?
> 
> The phone will only work with a SIM card from a certain network, so you 
> can't take out your vodafone SIM card and put in an O2 one.  Usually 
> allows you to buy the phone cheaper, as the network it is locked to can 
> expect more money from you than if they sold you an unlocked phone.  Of 
> course some phones can be unlocked (although this is getting harder and 
> harder recently) so you might be able to buy a cheap subsidised phone, 
> unlock it, then either use it with another (cheaper) network, or sell 
> the handset on ebay ;-)

The phone I purchased is locked to T-Mobile. You also have to buy a 

work. But after that, you can put any (T-Mobile) SIM card into the phone.

It's just as well I'm already with T-Mobile, eh?

It does seem like a hell of a song and dance just to get the same 
handset at half the price though...

I guess this explains the vast cottage industry of "phone unlocking"...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> OK. Well it's only what I've heard - that you *must* sign up to a 
> contract otherwise the handset you need to access the network is 
> impossibly expensive. I don't know if that was ever the case or if the 
> person in question just got their facts wrong...

The phone shop makes commission for every monthly contract they sell...

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scott wrote:
>> Yeah. When 96%+ of the households are already wired for land lines, 
>> it's pretty cheap to get a land line connection.
> 
> But then how much do you have to pay monthly just to keep the land line 
> connection turned on?  Here it's usually between 5 and 20 euros.

It's in dollars here. And if you don't make many calls, it's usually 
maybe $2 to $3 per month.  There are special rates for poor people here, 
since it's all very regulated.

> other hand, most mobile phone operators will sell you a SIM card for 
> some very small amount (usually 10-20 euros) that then only requires 
> that you pay for exactly the calls you make, no monthly charges or any 
> other costs (apart from buying a handset initially of course).  If you 
> don't make many calls, the mobile phone option works out much cheaper.

Here, yes, you can get some $10 prepaid service or some such, and it's 
$0.10 to $0.25 per minute for the calls. Assuming you get connectivity 
where you need it. I don't remember what the cheapest prepaid 
phone-itself costs, but I think it's low tens of dollars, if my vague 
memory serves. Of course, the minutes expire if you don't use them fast 
enough, so there is some minimum level you have to pay on that too, at 
least in the USA.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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> Of course, the minutes expire if you don't use them fast enough, so there 
> is some minimum level you have to pay on that too, at least in the USA.

AT&T (previously Cingular) offers pre-paid phones with rollover
and 90 days. The lowest value card to renew the service is $15.
The call rates are 50 cents a minute, + $1 a day use.
If you don't use the phone much, and renew it before the end of
service to keep your rollover, this ends up being a good deal (~$5 month).
It's probably not the best if you use it more often.

My brother is considering dropping Verizon, they have poor
coverage in Sitka, AK. He can't get on-line at all, and the
voice calls cut out.

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Warp wrote:
>   Don't know about how things are where you live, but at least here
> cellphones are *by far* the cheapest way to own a phone line. A landline
> is nowadays a lot more expensive than a cheap cellphone connection.

	Where I live, I was getting a $12/mo for having a landline, and 5 cents 
for each (local) call (cheaper in the daytime). Total would be under 
$20/mo. Or you could pay about $22/mo to get unlimited local calls. If I 
wanted to make long distance calls, I'd have to use a prepaid card (say 
2-3 cents/minute), or get a long distance plan. I used to make lots of 
long distance calls, but rarely do now.

	With a typical cell phone plan, you can call anywhere in the country 
and get "charged" the same. Most people either have to pay $30 + taxes 
(comes to about $35) or if they talk as much as I do/did, they'll have 
to opt for a $40 + tax (about $46/mo). Keep in mind that these prices 
are with the contracts - which are now often 2 years instead of 1 year.

	Even with lots of long distance calls, I wouldn't hit the $35 that 
you'd get with the cheapest reasonable cell phone plan.

	Prepaid phones here are no good if you talk quite a bit, or even a 
moderate amount. I think the cheapest I've seen is 10 cents a minute, 
with a requirement of a minimum $10/mo. I have one that only requires 
$20 for every three months, but the per minute charge is much more 
(hence only for emergency purposes).

	I have neither. I have a VoIP line. Can call anywhere in the country. 
Unlimited minutes. $20/mo. Good quality - no one can tell.

> Especially if you don't call a lot (like in my case) it can be *ridiculously*
> cheap. (My last cellphone bill was something like 23 euros. And the bill was
> for the last 6 months. I actually just changed to an even cheaper contract,
> so the bills will lower even from that.)

	That's ridiculously cheap. Over here, if you're not on prepaid, you'll 
pay almost that much for one month (with, say, only 300 daytime minutes 
per month). As I said, prepaid is expensive here and not a viable option.

>   It can be very handy when your few friends can contact you anytime
> anywhere.

	That's the cell phone culture part I was complaining about.

	I 'm not big on being connected. I don't do IM (used to, quit it years 
ago). And I really don't want to be called when I'm driving, in a queue 
somewhere, or walking to work, or at work. I could turn the cell phone 
off, but that would require turning it on and off far too often in one 
day. More irritatingly, at least over here, people won't understand a 
person like me who has a cell phone, carries it around, but has it off 
most of the time. But if I have a landline, they totally understand.

	If cell phones were cheaper than all other options, I'd likely get it 
and keep it at home.<G>

	Cell phones are quite convenient when arranging things with friends 
(e.g. picking people up, etc). And I do use my cell phone for that 
purpose, as that requires only a few minutes (i.e. less than 10) a week. 
Otherwise, it stays off. Which is convenient, because I dislike having 
to charge stuff up often (cell phones, PDA's, etc).

	

-- 
BASIC isn't; C stands for Confusing...


                     /\  /\               /\  /
                    /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                        >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                    anl

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Tim Attwood wrote:
> AT&T (previously Cingular) offers pre-paid phones with rollover

	Shouldn't that be:

AT&T (previously Cingular (previously AT&T))?

> and 90 days. The lowest value card to renew the service is $15.
> The call rates are 50 cents a minute, + $1 a day use.
> If you don't use the phone much, and renew it before the end of
> service to keep your rollover, this ends up being a good deal (~$5 month).
> It's probably not the best if you use it more often.

	I use Virgin Mobile. When I signed up, they required $20 for every 3 
months, with rollover. The first ten minutes on any given day was 25 
cents each, with 10 cents/minute for each minute after those ten on that 
day.

	I think now their plan is just a fixed 17 cents/minute (still $20 every 
3 months with rolling).

	It may be cheaper depending on your usage. Suits me fine. Only once did 
I exceed those $20 in a 3 month period.

-- 
BASIC isn't; C stands for Confusing...


                     /\  /\               /\  /
                    /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                        >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                    anl

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"Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message 
news:48b639a9@news.povray.org...

> Cell phones are quite convenient when arranging things with friends (e.g. 
> picking people up, etc). And I do use my cell phone for that purpose, as 
> that requires only a few minutes (i.e. less than 10) a week. Otherwise, it 
> stays off. Which is convenient, because I dislike having to charge stuff 
> up often (cell phones, PDA's, etc).

     Mobile/cell phones are just SO handy for emergencies. Anything else is 
a waste of time and money imo.

       (Apart from talking to friends of course... ;))

          ~Steve~

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