http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

  I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
this one seems to confirm this.

  In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
> 
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.
> 
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.

Up here the lowlanders don't seem to know the difference between valley 
driving and mountain driving. They think the same speed can be used for 
summer and winter conditions. Yesterday my brother spotted two 
off-the-road-again motorheads during the seven mile drive to the next town.

Of course, I'm not one to talk. I've found myself in at least six sticky 
situations in my life. Three were in sand, the rest were in snow. It 
didn't help that my Mazda truck was rear-wheel drive with a light back end.

Sam

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Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
> 
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.
> 
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.


I live a couple hundred miles away from the city where that video was 
taken, assuming that the weather there is similar to here (and I believe 
it is) I think part of the problem is that it generally snows there 
between zero and a couple of times per year, and most of the time it's 
only a an inch or two which melts before the day is done.  Thus it's not 
really worthwhile buying snow tires, since it's only very rarely that it 
snows enough that it would be at all useful (having a tire built for 
rain would be much more important).  Anyone here form Portland who can 
confirm / disagree with this?

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Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
> 
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.

There are parts of the US where it snows once every decade, at the very 
most.  Where I lived in California, it wasn't even cold enough to snow 
except on exactly one night during the three years I lived there.  It is 
generally the case that snow tires purchased will wear out and require 
replacement before they are needed.

One of the biggest laughs I ever had was watching a news report of snow 
in a part of California where snow falls once every two or three years. 
  A car was coming up to a traffic light.  The light came on.  The brake 
lights of the car came on very clearly and brightly.  The car continued 
to move with the same speed and in the same direction.

I grew up in Michigan, which routinely gets a 30cm snowfall on at least 
one night every winter, and more at other times throughout the year. 
Even there the first snowfall of the year throws people for a loop 
(because after seven months of not dealing with it, the skills get 
rusty).  The Detroit area has one of the largest natural salt supplies 
in the world (decades ago, ten percent of the world's salt production 
came from the area), so the salt trucks are deployed very quickly.  The 
cars there are rusted out very quickly, but since the car industry is 
big there, this is considered a good thing.

In the South, a 1 cm snowfall is reputed to paralyze entire cities.

Regards,
John

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
>
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.
>
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.
>
> --
>                                                           - Warp

Many places in the US, studded tires have been banned, as being too hard on the
pavement.

20-30 years ago, studded tires were allowed for certain months of the year where
I grew up (Nebraska.)  I really miss not being able to use them anymore....

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Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
> 
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.
> 
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.
> 
As others have said it is just not likely people will to buy snow gear 
for one or two storms. Though personally I could see maybe have some 
tire chains around.  Kind of like overshoes. Also it looked that those 
conditions were particularily severe and on a slope. Growing up in 
Hamilton Ont., it was a little snowier back in the day but also Hamilton 
folks bought studded tires routinely because the Niagara Escarpment runs 
right through the city and there was nothing more embarassing for a 
hometown motorist than to get stuck on the 'Jolly Cut' going up the 
escarpment.
I was out in something like the conditions in the video one night last 
winter.  The amazing thing was it took very little snow. When I picked 
up a group heading for Bklyn there was no snow.  By the time I made 
three turns and was on the ramp of the Manhattan Br. the snow was nearly 
blinding.  By the time I got to Ft Greene, the conditions were perfect 
for the snow to pack down into maybe a few millimeters of ice.    And of 
course finding a NYC fleet-owned Crown Vic with good tires would be a 
rare thing. It's a weird thing to feel the ABS kick in at 3 mph.
Which is another point.  I think with the newer smart braking and 
transmission systems in cars, people feel less need for heavy duty tires 
in winter.

P.S.
So I am teaching a Defensive Driving course a week or so back.  We get 
to the topic of 'things that can cause collisions'  We are reviewing 
'environmental conditions that can cause collisions'  I am asking the 
class about the road surface and what can make it slippery.  One guy 
puts up his hand and very enthusiastically suggests 'banana peels?' He 
was from either West Africa or West Indies. I honestly didn't know if he 
was serious.  I try to fudge it.  "Man you're killing me.  Banana 
peels?"  He got very offended.  Apparently he was serious.

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Jim Charter wrote:
> P.S.
> So I am teaching a Defensive Driving course a week or so back.  We get
> to the topic of 'things that can cause collisions'  We are reviewing
> 'environmental conditions that can cause collisions'  I am asking the
> class about the road surface and what can make it slippery.  One guy
> puts up his hand and very enthusiastically suggests 'banana peels?' He
> was from either West Africa or West Indies. I honestly didn't know if he
> was serious.  I try to fudge it.  "Man you're killing me.  Banana
> peels?"  He got very offended.  Apparently he was serious.

If you happen to be following a certain truck down the hill that leads
in to Scranton Pennsylvania, that could be a problem.

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Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

I remember the news on this. It was exceptional conditions. It had 
rained, frozen, snowed, rained, frozen again, something like that.

I'm pretty sure studded snow tires aren't going to make it safe to drive 
if you get the kind of conditions that let the car slide sideways at a 
sedate speed without slowing for fifty meters (like at 1:02 into the 
video).

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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Last year we had the first snow in 50 years. Only lasted for a day, and 
wasn't really too much snow anyway.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

> I remember the news on this. It was exceptional conditions. It had 
> rained, frozen, snowed, rained, frozen again, something like that.

> I'm pretty sure studded snow tires aren't going to make it safe to drive 
> if you get the kind of conditions that let the car slide sideways at a 
> sedate speed without slowing for fifty meters (like at 1:02 into the 
> video).

  I don't remember ever seeing that happening here, even though that
kind of climate (varying from below and over zero celsius repeatedly
over a relatively short timespan) happens quite often.

  Studded tires do not only increase grip, they also roughen the ice,
so the more cars drive along a road, the less slippery it gets.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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