Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
> 
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know about
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.
> 
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.
> 
As others have said it is just not likely people will to buy snow gear 
for one or two storms. Though personally I could see maybe have some 
tire chains around.  Kind of like overshoes. Also it looked that those 
conditions were particularily severe and on a slope. Growing up in 
Hamilton Ont., it was a little snowier back in the day but also Hamilton 
folks bought studded tires routinely because the Niagara Escarpment runs 
right through the city and there was nothing more embarassing for a 
hometown motorist than to get stuck on the 'Jolly Cut' going up the 
escarpment.
I was out in something like the conditions in the video one night last 
winter.  The amazing thing was it took very little snow. When I picked 
up a group heading for Bklyn there was no snow.  By the time I made 
three turns and was on the ramp of the Manhattan Br. the snow was nearly 
blinding.  By the time I got to Ft Greene, the conditions were perfect 
for the snow to pack down into maybe a few millimeters of ice.    And of 
course finding a NYC fleet-owned Crown Vic with good tires would be a 
rare thing. It's a weird thing to feel the ABS kick in at 3 mph.
Which is another point.  I think with the newer smart braking and 
transmission systems in cars, people feel less need for heavy duty tires 
in winter.

P.S.
So I am teaching a Defensive Driving course a week or so back.  We get 
to the topic of 'things that can cause collisions'  We are reviewing 
'environmental conditions that can cause collisions'  I am asking the 
class about the road surface and what can make it slippery.  One guy 
puts up his hand and very enthusiastically suggests 'banana peels?' He 
was from either West Africa or West Indies. I honestly didn't know if he 
was serious.  I try to fudge it.  "Man you're killing me.  Banana 
peels?"  He got very offended.  Apparently he was serious.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Charter wrote:
> P.S.
> So I am teaching a Defensive Driving course a week or so back.  We get
> to the topic of 'things that can cause collisions'  We are reviewing
> 'environmental conditions that can cause collisions'  I am asking the
> class about the road surface and what can make it slippery.  One guy
> puts up his hand and very enthusiastically suggests 'banana peels?' He
> was from either West Africa or West Indies. I honestly didn't know if he
> was serious.  I try to fudge it.  "Man you're killing me.  Banana
> peels?"  He got very offended.  Apparently he was serious.

If you happen to be following a certain truck down the hill that leads
in to Scranton Pennsylvania, that could be a problem.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

I remember the news on this. It was exceptional conditions. It had 
rained, frozen, snowed, rained, frozen again, something like that.

I'm pretty sure studded snow tires aren't going to make it safe to drive 
if you get the kind of conditions that let the car slide sideways at a 
sedate speed without slowing for fifty meters (like at 1:02 into the 
video).

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

Post a reply to this message

Last year we had the first snow in 50 years. Only lasted for a day, and 
wasn't really too much snow anyway.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

> I remember the news on this. It was exceptional conditions. It had 
> rained, frozen, snowed, rained, frozen again, something like that.

> I'm pretty sure studded snow tires aren't going to make it safe to drive 
> if you get the kind of conditions that let the car slide sideways at a 
> sedate speed without slowing for fifty meters (like at 1:02 into the 
> video).

  I don't remember ever seeing that happening here, even though that
kind of climate (varying from below and over zero celsius repeatedly
over a relatively short timespan) happens quite often.

  Studded tires do not only increase grip, they also roughen the ice,
so the more cars drive along a road, the less slippery it gets.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

> Warp wrote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
> 
> I remember the news on this. It was exceptional conditions. It had 
> rained, frozen, snowed, rained, frozen again, something like that.
> 
> I'm pretty sure studded snow tires aren't going to make it safe to drive 
> if you get the kind of conditions that let the car slide sideways at a 
> sedate speed without slowing for fifty meters (like at 1:02 into the 
> video).
> 

I've read somewhere that this particular street was on a hill, although 
it doesn't really show in the video, which explains why the car 
continues sliding like that.

-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   sympatico.ca  */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle wrote:
> 
> One of the biggest laughs I ever had was watching a news report of snow 
> in a part of California where snow falls once every two or three years. 
>  A car was coming up to a traffic light.  The light came on.  The brake 
> lights of the car came on very clearly and brightly.  The car continued 
> to move with the same speed and in the same direction.
> 

I remember my brother driving once and doing that very same thing.
Luckily the drivers from the crossing light didn't go until he slid 
through the intersection.


> I grew up in Michigan, which routinely gets a 30cm snowfall on at least 
> one night every winter, and more at other times throughout the year. 
> Even there the first snowfall of the year throws people for a loop 
> (because after seven months of not dealing with it, the skills get 
> rusty).  The Detroit area has one of the largest natural salt supplies 

I was in the Detriot area for one of those events.  It was funny, yet 
scary.  People were losing control on straight stretches.  I was puzzled 
until I was told about the first snow thing.


Tom

Post a reply to this message

Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> Jim Charter wrote:
>> P.S.
>> So I am teaching a Defensive Driving course a week or so back.  We get
>> to the topic of 'things that can cause collisions'  We are reviewing
>> 'environmental conditions that can cause collisions'  I am asking the
>> class about the road surface and what can make it slippery.  One guy
>> puts up his hand and very enthusiastically suggests 'banana peels?' He
>> was from either West Africa or West Indies. I honestly didn't know if he
>> was serious.  I try to fudge it.  "Man you're killing me.  Banana
>> peels?"  He got very offended.  Apparently he was serious.
> 
> If you happen to be following a certain truck down the hill that leads
> in to Scranton Pennsylvania, that could be a problem.

	What, having a guy from West Africa suggesting that a car can slip on a 
banana peel?

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:06:11 -0000, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> di
d  

spake, saying:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
>
>   I have heard that in many places in the US they don't even know abou
t
> the concept of winter tires (such as studded tires, which are used in
> Finland in winter), even at places where it snows. Seeing videos like
> this one seems to confirm this.
>
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year roun
d)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have

> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.

Exactly. To repave the road the state has to shut it down, redirect  

traffic, pay for the contractors and materials and the only thing they g
et  

back is indirect from any *possible* extra business having a nice road  

brings in to the local stores.

OTOH a good car crash still shuts down the road, but for a shorter perio
d  

of time; tow-trucks get paid from the insurance, scrap dealers get  

material, and HMOs fund any medical costs incurred at the local hospital
.

So repaving a road *might* generate income for the 'area', but car  

accidents always will.

Oh and yes I'm not being (totally) serious.

-- 

Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> 
>   In some countries studded tires are prohibited by law (all year round)
> because they wear the road faster. Well, I suppose it's better to have
> tons of car accidents than having to repave once in a while.
> 

Naturally you know (but everybody here don't) that studded tire and a 
winter tire are not 100% equal terms. There are also good winter tires 
on the market, which are not studded (ie. Nokian RSi, Bridgestone 
Blizzak etc).

One of the usual flamewars at sfnet newsgroups are studded vs. 
non-studded winter tires, I don't think we wan't to raise it here :p.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message