Phil Cook wrote:

> Some have - Deus Ex, Oblivion (though not technically an FPS) 
> Resistance: Fall of Man, System Shock. All these feature either ammo you 
> have to pick up, limited weaponry, degrading weapons, knock-back, 
> targeted body parts, non-instantaneuous health etc. Admittedly I've not 
> seen one single game that features all these reality points; I wonder 
> what Call of Duty 4 is like on that score?

Ever tried playing Insurgency? (It's a Steam mod somebody made. It's 
quite good.)

It's supposed to be the US Marines vs the Iraqi insurgents. And it's 
ment to by hyper-realistic.

- You walk at around 2 miles per hour. (So it takes forever to get 
anywhere.)
- There are no crosshairs on your screen.
- You can shoot from the hip and try to *guess* where the bullets will go.
- You can look down the barrel of the gun. The barrel has sights on it. 
However, you now cannot see most of what is in front of you.
- You can't hold the gun very steady unless you're lying down. Even 
then, it wobbles a fair bit.
- All the guns have insane recoil.
- It takes about 10 minutes to reload.
- You run at abour 4 MPH.
- You get breathless if you run too long.
- When you try to look down the barrel, if you're breathless it wobbles 
around all over the place. Until you catch your breath.
- If you fall more than about 6 feet, you get injured.
- If you fall more than about 12 feet, you die. Instantly.
- There is no "health bar", or any other kind of HUD.
- Friendly fire kills you. Immediately.

The game is... utterly boring. You spawn. You walk around an apparently 
empty map for 20 minutes. Suddenly you drop dead. Somewhere 25 miles 
away there's a guy with a sniper rifle. He shot you long before you can 
possibly see him.

In short, the game is impossibly difficult.

It does, however, have one redeeming feature. When you play as the US 
Marines, if you hit the reload key a gaunt voice mumbles "changing mags" 
while your character reloads the gun. However, when you play as the 
Iraqi insurgents, a high-pitched Arabic voice yells "rrrrrreloading!" 
It's the funniest God damn thing *ever*! :-D

I played one time, and we all spawned in the spawn room, and some guy on 
my team clicks his mouse button. This causes his rocket launcher to 
spawn-kill the entire ****ing team, right there. Eventually, it's that 
kind of thing that made me stop playing the game. I mean, apart from it 
being no fun at all, anyway...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:57:24 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Some have - Deus Ex, Oblivion (though not technically an FPS)  
>> Resistance: Fall of Man, System Shock. All these feature either ammo  
>> you have to pick up, limited weaponry, degrading weapons, knock-back,  
>> targeted body parts, non-instantaneuous health etc. Admittedly I've not  
>> seen one single game that features all these reality points; I wonder  
>> what Call of Duty 4 is like on that score?
>
> Ever tried playing Insurgency? (It's a Steam mod somebody made. It's  
> quite good.)
>
> It's supposed to be the US Marines vs the Iraqi insurgents. And it's  
> ment to by hyper-realistic.
>
> - You walk at around 2 miles per hour. (So it takes forever to get  
> anywhere.)
> - You run at abour 4 MPH.

Apparently the original Doom tried this until the testers complained it  
was too slow

> - There are no crosshairs on your screen.

A number of games allow you to turn them off.

> - You can shoot from the hip and try to *guess* where the bullets will  
> go.
> - You can look down the barrel of the gun. The barrel has sights on it.  
> However, you now cannot see most of what is in front of you.

Hmm that's a good idea.

> - You can't hold the gun very steady unless you're lying down. Even  
> then, it wobbles a fair bit.
> - When you try to look down the barrel, if you're breathless it wobbles  
> around all over the place. Until you catch your breath.

Again a good idea

> - All the guns have insane recoil.

Insane? Again a lot of FPSs I've played the guns have recoil or wander if  
automatic.

> - It takes about 10 minutes to reload.

Um?

> - You get breathless if you run too long.

Silent Hill (though not an FPS - yet) has a similar feature

> - If you fall more than about 6 feet, you get injured.
> - If you fall more than about 12 feet, you die. Instantly.

Well that's not realistic

> - There is no "health bar", or any other kind of HUD.

http://www.2kgames.com/thedarkness/screenshots/5xx.jpg

> - Friendly fire kills you. Immediately.

Again unrealistic, though more so then others.

> The game is... utterly boring. You spawn. You walk around an apparently  
> empty map for 20 minutes. Suddenly you drop dead. Somewhere 25 miles  
> away there's a guy with a sniper rifle. He shot you long before you can  
> possibly see him.

So IOW more like a realistic situation where you don't just wander along  
the middle of a street in a warzone, but instead use cover regardless of  
the visibilty of the enemy.

> In short, the game is impossibly difficult.

At which point Warp will find stats showing how many people play it thus  
'proving' it is possible to play

> It does, however, have one redeeming feature. When you play as the US  
> Marines, if you hit the reload key a gaunt voice mumbles "changing mags"  
> while your character reloads the gun. However, when you play as the  
> Iraqi insurgents, a high-pitched Arabic voice yells "rrrrrreloading!"  
> It's the funniest God damn thing *ever*! :-D

Wonderful how um non-realistic.

> I played one time, and we all spawned in the spawn room, and some guy on  
> my team clicks his mouse button. This causes his rocket launcher to  
> spawn-kill the entire ****ing team, right there. Eventually, it's that  
> kind of thing that made me stop playing the game. I mean, apart from it  
> being no fun at all, anyway...

Oh fantastic I bet he was popular.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

>> - You walk at around 2 miles per hour. (So it takes forever to get 
>> anywhere.)
>> - You run at abour 4 MPH.
> 
> Apparently the original Doom tried this until the testers complained it 
> was too slow

Yes, I think I recall hearing that before...

>> - There are no crosshairs on your screen.
> 
> A number of games allow you to turn them off.

Which is different to being unable to turn them on. ;-)

Seriously though, it makes CSS feel just a tad unrealistic. Hey, I'm 
running around with an AK47 on my hip and I can still hit people 2 miles 
away in a single shot - hmmmm. ;-)

>> - You can shoot from the hip and try to *guess* where the bullets will 
>> go.
>> - You can look down the barrel of the gun. The barrel has sights on 
>> it. However, you now cannot see most of what is in front of you.
> 
> Hmm that's a good idea.

As I say, it makes you realise just how unrealistic most other games are.

>> - All the guns have insane recoil.
> 
> Insane? Again a lot of FPSs I've played the guns have recoil or wander 
> if automatic.

As in, fire a shot and the gun jumps about 4 feet to the side. If you 
hold the trigger down, the gun will just stray bullets around completely 
at random with no semblence of control.

>> - It takes about 10 minutes to reload.
> 
> Um?

OK, not *literally* 10 minutes. But a damn long time - especially 
compared to the split second it usually takes in other games.

>> - If you fall more than about 6 feet, you get injured.
>> - If you fall more than about 12 feet, you die. Instantly.
> 
> Well that's not realistic

Really?

You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12 feet?

>> - Friendly fire kills you. Immediately.
> 
> Again unrealistic, though more so then others.

Why? Being shot kills the enemy instantly, so why not your teammates?

>> The game is... utterly boring. You spawn. You walk around an 
>> apparently empty map for 20 minutes. Suddenly you drop dead. Somewhere 
>> 25 miles away there's a guy with a sniper rifle. He shot you long 
>> before you can possibly see him.
> 
> So IOW more like a realistic situation where you don't just wander along 
> the middle of a street in a warzone, but instead use cover regardless of 
> the visibilty of the enemy.

Well perhaps it's because I've only played the game with a bunch of 
Internet n00bs who don't know what they're doing, but everything is just 
milling around at random trying to figure out what you're supposed to be 
doing. And getting shot down.

The maps are pretty huge...

>> In short, the game is impossibly difficult.
> 
> At which point Warp will find stats showing how many people play it thus 
> 'proving' it is possible to play

Isn't that rather like siting how many people have climbed Everest, thus 
*proving* that it's not impossibly difficult?

>> I played one time, and we all spawned in the spawn room, and some guy 
>> on my team clicks his mouse button. This causes his rocket launcher to 
>> spawn-kill the entire ****ing team, right there. Eventually, it's that 
>> kind of thing that made me stop playing the game. I mean, apart from 
>> it being no fun at all, anyway...
> 
> Oh fantastic I bet he was popular.

Bless. He's probably only 12...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:48:02 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> - There are no crosshairs on your screen.
>>  A number of games allow you to turn them off.
>
> Which is different to being unable to turn them on. ;-)

True

> Seriously though, it makes CSS feel just a tad unrealistic. Hey, I'm  
> running around with an AK47 on my hip and I can still hit people 2 miles  
> away in a single shot - hmmmm. ;-)

Not to mention asking what's the drop on this weapon?

>>> - All the guns have insane recoil.
>>  Insane? Again a lot of FPSs I've played the guns have recoil or wander  
>> if automatic.
>
> As in, fire a shot and the gun jumps about 4 feet to the side. If you  
> hold the trigger down, the gun will just stray bullets around completely  
> at random with no semblence of control.

One assumed as the game featured supposedly trained and fit people that  
wouldn't be completely the case.

>>> - It takes about 10 minutes to reload.
>>  Um?
>
> OK, not *literally* 10 minutes. But a damn long time - especially  
> compared to the split second it usually takes in other games.

Depends on the weapon, some take longer then others; some are designed for  
quick reloading.

>>> - If you fall more than about 6 feet, you get injured.
>>> - If you fall more than about 12 feet, you die. Instantly.
>>  Well that's not realistic
>
> Really?
>
> You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12  
> feet?

Uh yes. I'm not saying uninjured and it depends on what they're landing on  
and how they're landing. Check the news about parachutists surviving falls  
 from a lot higher then 12 feet.

>>> - Friendly fire kills you. Immediately.
>>  Again unrealistic, though more so then others.
>
> Why? Being shot kills the enemy instantly, so why not your teammates?

Except it depends on where you're being shot, a leg shot won't instantly  
kill you (might make you black out) even a head shot might not instantly  
kill you though that's the much more likely outcome.

>>> The game is... utterly boring. You spawn. You walk around an  
>>> apparently empty map for 20 minutes. Suddenly you drop dead. Somewhere  
>>> 25 miles away there's a guy with a sniper rifle. He shot you long  
>>> before you can possibly see him.
>>  So IOW more like a realistic situation where you don't just wander  
>> along the middle of a street in a warzone, but instead use cover  
>> regardless of the visibilty of the enemy.
>
> Well perhaps it's because I've only played the game with a bunch of  
> Internet n00bs who don't know what they're doing, but everything is just  
> milling around at random trying to figure out what you're supposed to be  
> doing. And getting shot down.

Sounds like fun

> The maps are pretty huge...

All the better for long distance sniping of people milling around in the  
street.

>>> In short, the game is impossibly difficult.
>>  At which point Warp will find stats showing how many people play it  
>> thus 'proving' it is possible to play
>
> Isn't that rather like siting how many people have climbed Everest, thus  
> *proving* that it's not impossibly difficult?

To be fair to Warp I think he was more concerned with how you keep saying  
something is impossible when it's clearly not. Now I know what you mean  
when you say that - you mean it's a right PITA designed by 22-hour a day  
gamers with twitch reflexes for other 22-hour a day twitch gamers.

>>> I played one time, and we all spawned in the spawn room, and some guy  
>>> on my team clicks his mouse button. This causes his rocket launcher to  
>>> spawn-kill the entire ****ing team, right there. Eventually, it's that  
>>> kind of thing that made me stop playing the game. I mean, apart from  
>>> it being no fun at all, anyway...
>>  Oh fantastic I bet he was popular.
>
> Bless. He's probably only 12...

Gods makes you feel old :-)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:48:02 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12  
> feet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulović


-- 
FE

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On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:48:02 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>> - If you fall more than about 6 feet, you get injured. - If you fall
>>> more than about 12 feet, you die. Instantly.
>> 
>> Well that's not realistic
> 
> Really?
> 
> You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12
> feet?

Actually, yes.  There was a story in the news recently about a guy who 
fell some 40 stories (IIRC) and survived.  He was injured, of course, but 
he did survive.

I also know at least two people who survived parachute failures while 
skydiving (both in the military).

Jim

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:47a85b04$1@news.povray.org...

>
> Really?
>
> You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12
feet?

12 feet isn't that far. Around 4 meters, if my conversion is correct. That's
maybe a bit higher than the 1st floor of a building. Depends what the person
falls onto and how they land how bad they'll be hurt.

I've fallen just over 2 metres from a wall onto grass (fairly short grass)
Walked away with a bruised elbow and hip and a bit of friction burn

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On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:48:02 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>
>OK, not *literally* 10 minutes. But a damn long time - especially 
>compared to the split second it usually takes in other games.
>
>>> - If you fall more than about 6 feet, you get injured.
>>> - If you fall more than about 12 feet, you die. Instantly.
>> 
>> Well that's not realistic
>
>Really?
>
>You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12 feet?

10 meters into water, that is the highest recommended distance for offshore
structures. 

Regards
	Stephen

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Invisible wrote:
> Really?
> 
> You're telling me a human being can survive falling from more than 12 feet?

I've jumped 12 feet off a building, not even a bruise from it.

And no, I didn't land on a trampoline :)

> Isn't that rather like siting how many people have climbed Everest, thus 
> *proving* that it's not impossibly difficult?

Climbing Everest *isn't* impossibly difficult.  Extremely hard, yes, but 
not impossible, nor even unthinkable.

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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Warp wrote:
>   If FPS games were about realism, 

... then you'd be out of the game the first time you got shot, and you 
wouldn't get to start over any more either.  ;-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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