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11 Oct 2024 03:15:10 EDT (-0400)
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From: Chambers
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 31 Jan 2008 09:59:58
Message: <47a1e26e@news.povray.org>
Warp wrote:
> VS to use it (again, it doesn't seem to detect this automatically). All
> this can be a real pain, especially since it doesn't seem to be documented
> anywhere. Without precise instructions on how to do this, it can be next
> to impossible to figure it out.

There's a link from the download page to instructions on how to do this. 
  At least, there was when I tried it, but that was over a year ago, so 
things may have changed :/

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com


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From: John VanSickle
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 31 Jan 2008 16:24:17
Message: <47a23c81@news.povray.org>
Warp wrote:
> John VanSickle <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> I installed VS C++ 2005, and immediately found that I could not set it 
>> to assume that all strings were ASCII strings
> 
>   Really? There's a setting in the project properties for this.

Maybe; but since I already have two compilers that work fine--and worked 
fine out of the box without having to be set for it--why bother meddling 
with a third?

And anyway, once the source was edited to compile, I went on to find 
that the linker did not recognize some of the API calls, and I didn't 
feel like diagnosing the cause.

Regards,
John


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From: Mike Raiford
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 08:42:07
Message: <47a7162f$1@news.povray.org>
Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Ah, .not. I stay away from that. Even though some things look tempting. 
> But hey, Vista screenshots with Aero are tempting too (that's the whole 
> idea of marketing), and no way in hell I'll downgrade to it.

Yeah, that's the true evil of it though... Once you get a taste, it's 
hard to go back. Wife's computer has the super-fancy version of Vista. 
I'll have to say, I don't think I've ever used the 3D, roll through the 
windows feature they kept showing when they were promoting vista, But 
the translucent windows are kind of neat, sure it's eye candy ... But 
it's nice eye candy. I'm also quite happy to see they added the ability 
to change the color the windows title bars. Which I sort of missed in XP.


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From: Mike Raiford
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 08:46:43
Message: <47a71743$1@news.povray.org>
Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I once tried it. Couldn't do anything useful with it during a whole 
> hour. I uninstalled it. Of course, despite recommendations made by 
> Microsoft itself to other developers, the uninstaller didn't remove 
> everything that was installed. I was months with lots of filetypes (like 
> .c) still associated to VS express.

Hmm, VC++ express is somewhat limited, You can do useful things with it, 
but you have to be prepared to program to straight Win32, which, to say 
the least is painful. MFC helps in this regards. Though, you can use 
Managed C++, which has the .NET framework available. I admit, I haven't 
really done anything in Managed C++, preferring to use C# for .net 
development.

> I use gvim and a bash shell (yes, in Windows) for all my development 
> needs. Except for POV-Ray, where I use the internal editor, and for 
> Java, where I use Eclipse. MinGW as C compiler.

I used to have a suite of POSIX tools for Windows. Eclipse was a nice 
editor, but I never really got into Java development. (Which may seem 
strange, seeing as I really like C#, now.)


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From: Mike Raiford
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 08:53:49
Message: <47a718ed$1@news.povray.org>
Warp wrote:
> Chambers <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote:
>> I used to like it, until I had a chance to see the professional version 
>> in action.  For whatever reason, the free version is crippled beyond 
>> belief, speed-wise.  It would literally take more than ten times as long 
>> to open, load projects, or compile them.
> 
>   Strange. I haven't noticed this. I have used both the express version
> and the commercial one of VS 2005.
> 

I haven't noticed any speed reductions, either. The one thing I do 
really miss, though is the lack of support for Visual Assist, which is 
a plug-in that enhances some of the IDE's built-in features. Mainly 
because it's member list can be filtered by properties, methods, etc... 
and allows searches based on partial words (i.e. I can type Event, and 
I'll see MouseEventArgs, EventArgs, PaintEventArgs, etc...)

lack of source control is another biggie. C++ lacking MFC is also a 
drawback, given a lot of the C++ development we do uses MFC.


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 08:57:33
Message: <47a719cd@news.povray.org>

> Yeah, that's the true evil of it though... Once you get a taste, it's 
> hard to go back. Wife's computer has the super-fancy version of Vista. 
> I'll have to say, I don't think I've ever used the 3D, roll through the 
> windows feature they kept showing when they were promoting vista, But 
> the translucent windows are kind of neat, sure it's eye candy ... But 
> it's nice eye candy.

It has been possible to make the whole window transparent, since Windows 
2000. There's just no UI for it, so you need some 3rd party app like 
PowerMenu. Also, there's obviously no blurred transparency. I have found 
this is really useful to avoid getting distracted by whatever is on the 
background.

I wrote my own program that covers the whole desktop and draws an image, 
then draws a second image only in areas covered by transparent windows. 
So I make the second image be the same as the first image, but blurred 
(I couldn't be bothered to make my program blur it automatically).

http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/blur.png
http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/blur_wp.png

Also, did you see the eye candy of Compiz? Way more effects than Vista 
(and in fact a Flip3D-like plugin already exists for it). And written in 
plain C (not even C++!), instead of needing .NET for writing new effects...

> I'm also quite happy to see they added the ability 
> to change the color the windows title bars. Which I sort of missed in XP.

I never run Windows on its default skin anyway. uxtheme patch ftw. My 
current look:
http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/lunaelement5.png (LE5 also available in black)


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 09:04:04
Message: <47a71b54$1@news.povray.org>

> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> I once tried it. Couldn't do anything useful with it during a whole 
>> hour. I uninstalled it. Of course, despite recommendations made by 
>> Microsoft itself to other developers, the uninstaller didn't remove 
>> everything that was installed. I was months with lots of filetypes 
>> (like .c) still associated to VS express.
> 
> Hmm, VC++ express is somewhat limited, You can do useful things with it, 
> but you have to be prepared to program to straight Win32, which, to say 
> the least is painful. MFC helps in this regards.

All I wanted at that point was getting POV-Ray compiled, unmodified! And 
some other app I don't remember now...


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From: Mike Raiford
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 12:58:48
Message: <47a75258$1@news.povray.org>
Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> It has been possible to make the whole window transparent, since Windows 
> 2000. There's just no UI for it, so you need some 3rd party app like 
> PowerMenu. Also, there's obviously no blurred transparency. I have found 
> this is really useful to avoid getting distracted by whatever is on the 
> background.

Yep, I've played with the transparency in 2000, usually wound up hating 
it enough that I'd turn off whatever add-on allowed me to do it. :)

> 
> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/blur.png
> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/blur_wp.png

That's the effect. That's what I call translucent, different from 
transparent in my mind. Transparent infers no diffusion of the object 
underlying.

> Also, did you see the eye candy of Compiz? Way more effects than Vista 
> (and in fact a Flip3D-like plugin already exists for it). And written in 
> plain C (not even C++!), instead of needing .NET for writing new effects...
> 
>> I'm also quite happy to see they added the ability to change the color 
>> the windows title bars. Which I sort of missed in XP.
> 
> I never run Windows on its default skin anyway. uxtheme patch ftw. My 
> current look:
> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/lunaelement5.png (LE5 also available in 
> black)

Looks very similar to Vista. Still, you have to swap themes in order to 
adjust the colors.


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 13:56:15
Message: <47a75fcf@news.povray.org>
Mike Raiford <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Hmm, VC++ express is somewhat limited, You can do useful things with it, 
> but you have to be prepared to program to straight Win32, which, to say 
> the least is painful.

  You don't have to if you use the proper library.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Mike Raiford
Subject: Re: VS Express editions?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 15:49:06
Message: <47a77a42$1@news.povray.org>
Warp wrote:

> 
>   You don't have to if you use the proper library.
> 

What libraries to simplify win32 programming are available that don't 
have license restrictions (which rules out most open source solutions)?


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