Dre nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/04 21:09:
> "Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in 
> message news:47057eb5$1@news.povray.org...
>> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>>> dkanter escribió:
>>>> POV-Ray beta 22 is now out of date, which means I have to screw around 
>>>> with
>>>> my system clock to get it to function.
>>>>
>>>> Could the powers that be put beta 23 online?  It would be nice to have a
>>>> functional beta version of the application available as soon as the old 
>>>> one
>>>> expires.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Kanter
>>>> Editor
>>>> Real World Tech
>>>>
>>> If you use a beta version, you will have to deal with that issue. Next
>>> beta will be online when devs have time to do it.
>> Which (for windows) ought to be this weekend.
>>
>> Starting with that beta I will be changing things such that after the
>> expiry date, a warning is displayed which has to be clicked-through rather
>> than not running at all. Though there probably still will be an absolute
>> timeout, it will be in the order of six to twelve months or so.
>>
>> -- Chris
> 
> I still believe you will get more testers if you totally remove the timeout 
> (dont even get me started on the idea of a nag warning to click through! 
> Bad bad bad!!!!!).  Having to keep mucking around with date/time settings to 
> get it to run or reverting back to 3.6 is a pita so I for one dont bother 
> with any betas.  If however there was no nag, or timeout, I would be more 
> than happy to beta test.
> 
> Cheers Dre 
> 
> 
Do you know WHY there is an expiration on beta? It's there so that developers 
are not pestered about old bugs that have already been corrected in the newer 
version(s).
I've seen cases, with other products, where bug reports were filed for some 
early beta releases MONTHS after the final version was released. Some times, 
around a year, maybe more, after the affected beta release was replaced by the 
next, whitch effectively corrected that very same bug.
There was several cases when those to late bug reports actualy caused serious 
setback in the development process, as the beta version was NOT provided by the 
"bug" reporter.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.

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On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:02:50 -0400, Alain wrote:

> There was several cases when those to late bug reports actualy caused
> serious setback in the development process, as the beta version was NOT
> provided by the "bug" reporter.

Arguably, that's easy to resolve:  Nobody works on a bug until the 
version of product being used is confirmed.

Jim

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Jim Henderson nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/05 20:59:
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:02:50 -0400, Alain wrote:
> 
>> There was several cases when those to late bug reports actualy caused
>> serious setback in the development process, as the beta version was NOT
>> provided by the "bug" reporter.
> 
> Arguably, that's easy to resolve:  Nobody works on a bug until the 
> version of product being used is confirmed.
> 
> Jim
Often easier said than done. Also, there are times when the version number given 
is wrong.
Even if you just shove those old and fixed bug reports aside, you can loose time 
just to elliminate those.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow.

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On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:32:42 -0400, Alain wrote:

> Often easier said than done. Also, there are times when the version
> number given is wrong.
> Even if you just shove those old and fixed bug reports aside, you can
> loose time just to elliminate those.

Doesn't seem to be a problem for GPL'ed code or for many commercial 
packages.  Yes, some closed-source products do timebomb their betas, but 
at the same time, having watched commercial products be supported (and 
supported them myself) when the latest support pack is required before 
getting support.

Maybe require two separate reports of a bug before anyone works on it?  
The community is big enough that if someone's having a problem, they 
typically will post a sample and see if someone can help them - and if a 
second person tries and finds the same thing, that sort of confirmation 
can help reduce the chances of spinning cycles on something that isn't a 
valid bug report.

Similarly, when someone reports a problem, if there's a code sample, it's 
easy enough to verify with the proper version, and if it's not 
reproducible, that'll also tell you that you're getting wrong output.

There'll always be people who will work around it - a time bomb really 
doesn't prevent people from reporting the version incorrectly either; if 
they're determined to get help, they'll fake the info necessary to get 
someone to look into it.  I've seen that plenty of times as well - 
unsupported configurations and unsupported combinations of products, and 
the reporter will invariably either lie about what they've got or omit 
the things they think aren't relevant (or more likely, the things that 
would make it an unsupported installation).

Jim

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:47060c82@news.povray.org...
> Dre <aus### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> so I for one dont bother with any betas.
>
>  Sweet (but childish) revenge?
>
> -- 
>                                                          - Warp

Not at all, I have no reason to have "revenge" on Pov, it hasn't done 
anything to me!

I just cannot be bothered having to revert/reinstall older version when the 
time limit runs out just so I can keep working.  If the time limit were to 
be removed I would have no hesitation to use the beta's.

Cheers Dre

Post a reply to this message

"Alain" <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote in message 
news:4706986d@news.povray.org...
> Dre nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/04 21:09:
>> "Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in 
>> message news:47057eb5$1@news.povray.org...
>>> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

>>>>> POV-Ray beta 22 is now out of date, which means I have to screw around 
>>>>> with
>>>>> my system clock to get it to function.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could the powers that be put beta 23 online?  It would be nice to have 
>>>>> a
>>>>> functional beta version of the application available as soon as the 
>>>>> old one
>>>>> expires.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Kanter
>>>>> Editor
>>>>> Real World Tech
>>>>>
>>>> If you use a beta version, you will have to deal with that issue. Next
>>>> beta will be online when devs have time to do it.
>>> Which (for windows) ought to be this weekend.
>>>
>>> Starting with that beta I will be changing things such that after the
>>> expiry date, a warning is displayed which has to be clicked-through 
>>> rather
>>> than not running at all. Though there probably still will be an absolute
>>> timeout, it will be in the order of six to twelve months or so.
>>>
>>> -- Chris
>>
>> I still believe you will get more testers if you totally remove the 
>> timeout (dont even get me started on the idea of a nag warning to click 
>> through! Bad bad bad!!!!!).  Having to keep mucking around with date/time 
>> settings to get it to run or reverting back to 3.6 is a pita so I for one 
>> dont bother with any betas.  If however there was no nag, or timeout, I 
>> would be more than happy to beta test.
>>
>> Cheers Dre
> Do you know WHY there is an expiration on beta? It's there so that 
> developers are not pestered about old bugs that have already been 
> corrected in the newer version(s).
> I've seen cases, with other products, where bug reports were filed for 
> some early beta releases MONTHS after the final version was released. Some 
> times, around a year, maybe more, after the affected beta release was 
> replaced by the next, whitch effectively corrected that very same bug.
> There was several cases when those to late bug reports actualy caused 
> serious setback in the development process, as the beta version was NOT 
> provided by the "bug" reporter.
>
> -- 
> Alain
> -------------------------------------------------
> 42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Yes I know exactly why they do it.  But I personally dont think its a good 
enough reason to have the time limit.  Other beta programs work fine without 
a time limit plus (as mentioned) there are other ways to get around what you 
have said.

Cheers Dre

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Dre <aus### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I just cannot be bothered having to revert/reinstall older version when the 
> time limit runs out just so I can keep working.

  Reinstall the older version? I didn't even know the beta has an installer.
It's just a binary. You place it in the directory of the pov3.6 distribution
and you can run it alongside it. There's no reverting nor reinstalling
anything needed.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Dre nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/07 18:39:
> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
> news:47060c82@news.povray.org...
>> Dre <aus### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>> so I for one dont bother with any betas.
>>  Sweet (but childish) revenge?
>>
>> -- 
>>                                                          - Warp
> 
> Not at all, I have no reason to have "revenge" on Pov, it hasn't done 
> anything to me!
> 
> I just cannot be bothered having to revert/reinstall older version when the 
> time limit runs out just so I can keep working.  If the time limit were to 
> be removed I would have no hesitation to use the beta's.
> 
> Cheers Dre 
> 
> 
POV-Ray 3.7 is not meant to replace the standard install. You can do as I do: 
under the bin folder, create a beta folder. Unzip the beta there. Keep a 
shortcut for the regular version and one for the beta.
That way, you always have both working versions available. No need to 
revert/reinstall the non-beta version when the beta expires.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Celebrate Hannibal Day this year.  Take an elephant to lunch.

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:47096f2d@news.povray.org...
> Dre <aus### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> I just cannot be bothered having to revert/reinstall older version when 
>> the
>> time limit runs out just so I can keep working.
>
>  Reinstall the older version? I didn't even know the beta has an 
> installer.
> It's just a binary. You place it in the directory of the pov3.6 
> distribution
> and you can run it alongside it. There's no reverting nor reinstalling
> anything needed.
>
> -- 
>                                                          - Warp

Okay I should have left out the "reinstall" bit.

I dont like having to muck around with applications when they stop working 
when I want to use them.  I have little spare time as it is and having to 
waste time to make things work before I can do my work is frustrating so I 
just dont bother.

Cheers Dre

Post a reply to this message

"Alain" <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote in message 
news:47099850$1@news.povray.org...
> Dre nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/07 18:39:
>> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
>> news:47060c82@news.povray.org...
>>> Dre <aus### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>>> so I for one dont bother with any betas.
>>>  Sweet (but childish) revenge?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>                                                          - Warp
>>
>> Not at all, I have no reason to have "revenge" on Pov, it hasn't done 
>> anything to me!
>>
>> I just cannot be bothered having to revert/reinstall older version when 
>> the time limit runs out just so I can keep working.  If the time limit 
>> were to be removed I would have no hesitation to use the beta's.
>>
>> Cheers Dre
> POV-Ray 3.7 is not meant to replace the standard install. You can do as I 
> do: under the bin folder, create a beta folder. Unzip the beta there. Keep 
> a shortcut for the regular version and one for the beta.
> That way, you always have both working versions available. No need to 
> revert/reinstall the non-beta version when the beta expires.
>
> -- 
> Alain
> -------------------------------------------------
> Celebrate Hannibal Day this year.  Take an elephant to lunch.

Thats fine, but then which version fires up when I say open a .pov file in 
explorer??  Depends on the file association.  I dont want to have to check 
whether its version 3.6 or 3.7b everytime so what if its set to 3.6, then it 
wont use 3.7, if its set to 3.7, then when it runs out, my associations 
break.   Or if I have the association set to 3.6, I have 3.7 open, then 
flick back to windows explorer, double click on a different .pov and it 
opens up in 3.6, not in 3.7, pita.  There are *many* more examples.

All stuff I dont want to waste my (precious) spare time with so hence wont 
use betas that time out.

Cheers Dre

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