I think this community is intelligent enough not to tolerate somebody 
who crosses the lines several times (anyone heard something about Bill 
lately? Well, aside from that april fool, of course *g*). It's just that 
  it is tolerated longer than in other communities I know.

I got no problem with the content of IMBJR's posts (but that *is* a 
personal opinion). But, as others already pointed out, his attitude is 
just plain stupid (again, my personal opinion). IMHO all he wants to is 
to create emotions like the one in this thread. I do not think that we 
should give him that success.

IMO the best solution is still the good ol' killfile. If this won't work 
on your system, simply ignore his posts. Trolls can't live with being 
ignored.

> It is because of this I won't be posting anything there anymore.
I think that would be kind of a childish reaction. I do not see how this 
would solve the problem. I love your images and - in contrast to IMBJR - 
you are a great member of this community. If everybody who is displeased 
by IMBJR's post would stop posting, he had reached his goal.

Conclusion: Igonore this troll. He will either get more and more 
agressive (and will be baned) or simply die in some lonely corner.

Florian

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> Btw. I think... what would happened even if just kid see such image? 
> If it is *realy* yung he will not understand it, is it is older - well, in 
> 99.999% cases he would already know how to type "free sex" in google.

So why are in every country I know only adults allowed to watch, rent, 
buy, posses, etc. porn-material? Don't you think there's a reason for that?

Just because the kids can get the stuff somewhere else, it does not mean 
that you should serve it to them, too. Or do you go out in the 
kindergardens and sell porn, guns, alcohol, drugs, etc. to the kids?

Florian

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tor### [at] torfboldcom news:407138cf$1@news.povray.org

> Conclusion: Igonore this troll. He will either get more and more 
> agressive (and will be baned) or simply die in some lonely corner.

So I guess that modern artists, surreal-artists, etc - where all trolles? 

And if peoples would think like You, today we all would oil-paint 3d 
portrets of each other instead of using POV.

Btw, in one of nerws groups I was consider a troll (for some time) bacause 
using PovRay (instead of The Only Allowed By God Tool - 3dSMax).

I realy thought that we have more tollerant peoples here, and that terms 
like freedom are more known.

-- 
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics

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tor### [at] torfboldcom news:407139d5@news.povray.org

> So why are in every country I know only adults allowed to watch, rent,

Good You added "I know"

> buy, posses, etc. porn-material? Don't you think there's a reason for
> that? 

Reasons are always. Are there wise is another subject.
 
> Just because the kids can get the stuff somewhere else, it does not
> mean that you should serve it to them, too. 

I agree.

> Or do you go out in the  kindergardens and sell porn, guns, alcohol, 
> drugs, etc. to the kids?

Dont You see a slight difference here?

Porn is used to doing *good* (Yourself ;)

Simmilar for alcohol, BUT it is quite toxic for children, and more 
important it makes peoples act stupid and possible *harm* / *kill* others 
(i.e. when driving after drinking).

Guns are used to *kill* or injure other peoples.
Drugs *injure* (or even kill).

making pleasure and discovering human body  
  -Vs-
hurting, injuring, killing

no difference realy?!


-- 
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics

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In article <407134c3$1@news.povray.org> , "Tim Nikias v2.0" <#macro 
tim.nikias (@) #local = "nolights.de" #end> wrote:

>> Am I the only one (besides Greg, Tyler, Bob, and Patrick) who feels this
>> way? Please speak up, or else nothing will be done about it. I hope to
>> enjoy these newsgroups again someday.
>
> I too don't like the current spin of images in p.b.i. It is difficult to
> propose where to draw a line between erotic, obscenity and pornography
> though. What might be considered erotic is perhaps obscene to the next.

Exactly!

Personally I tend to have no problem with anything that can also been seen
in Greek statues.  Beyond that, I do tend to consider things pornography.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> ..."Tim Nikias v2.0" ... wrote:
>>It is difficult to propose where to draw a line between erotic,
 >>obscenity and pornography though. What might be considered erotic
 >>is perhaps obscene to the next.
> 
> Personally I tend to have no problem with anything that can also been seen
> in Greek statues.  Beyond that, I do tend to consider things pornography.

In many workplaces, even some of the Greek statues are inappropriate.
If you don't believe me, just try putting such a statue on your desk
and see how long it can stay.

On the other hand, if someone did create a well-rendered greek
statue with subsurface scattering, etc. I'd be quite interested
in seeing it outside of the office.

Personally, I like the suggestion of having a separate newsgroup
where all the nude, naked, and obscene pictures would end up;
primarily because even an elegant nude is not something I want
on my screen at work.

   just a lurker...

PS: If you guys are talking about stuff from the same guy who kept
arguing endlessly about JPEG2000s, I aready killfiled him
since he seemed more inclined to stir up trouble than contribute.
Assuming it's the same guy, my guess is that if you block
obscenity he'll just turn to posting uncompressed CMYK files,
or X bitmaps just to keep stirring up trouble.

Post a reply to this message

>>So why are in every country I know only adults allowed to watch, rent,
> 
> Good You added "I know"
I'd be interested if you could tell me in which industrial country this 
is "organized" in a different way.

>>Or do you go out in the  kindergardens and sell porn, guns, alcohol, 
>>drugs, etc. to the kids?

> Dont You see a slight difference here?

> Porn is used to doing *good* (Yourself ;)

[snip]

> Guns are used to *kill* or injure other peoples.
100% ACK. I admit that this wasn't a good argument.

[snip]

> making pleasure and discovering human body  
>   -Vs-
> hurting, injuring, killing
> 
> no difference realy?!

Porn is not always something good (I wonder if it is not almost always 
something bad). It's about how we treat our fellow men: Porns often 
display a kind of relationship between men and women which does in no 
way represent their relationship in a "modern" society (I'm talking 
about treating women as (sex-)objects instead of human beings here). I 
think it's a good thing to prevent young kids from such a way of 
thinking. So porn will not harm children physically and I would not go 
as far as to state it harms them mentally, but IMHO it has a good chance 
to influence their mind in a negative way (Which would be the same as 
alcohol, with the slight difference that the effect of alcohol will 
vanish after some hours of sleep).

Florian

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> So I guess that modern artists, surreal-artists, etc - where all trolles? 
Perhaps. But as I handle it today with people like IMBJR (killfile), I 
would have handled it in those times - don't look at their images if I 
don't like them.
I don't know that much about art, but I guess not many of those "old 
trolls" broke into exhebitions of the old-school artists only to show 
their "modern"-art and try to provoke.

> And if peoples would think like You, today we all would oil-paint 3d 
> portrets of each other instead of using POV.
Nope. Don't confuse technical progress with change of moral.

> Btw, in one of nerws groups I was consider a troll (for some time) bacause 
> using PovRay (instead of The Only Allowed By God Tool - 3dSMax).
Could happen to you here, too (if you start posting Max-only images).

> I realy thought that we have more tollerant peoples here, and that terms 
> like freedom are more known.
I think I am more tolerant than many other people (regarding things like 
homosexual marriage (cool!), etc.). But I simply can't stand it if 
someone's only goal is to disturb others. It's like with hooligans in 
football - if they want to beat each other up, they should go to a 
box-club or meet somewhere else where they don't annoy the others.

Florian

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> Am I the only one (besides Greg, Tyler, Bob, and Patrick) who feels this
> way? Please speak up, or else nothing will be done about it. I hope to
> enjoy these newsgroups again someday.

I'm with you. And I'll name names. IMJBR has gone too far this time.

My feeling is that IMJBR is no longer showing his "art", but doing so just
to cause trouble. IMHO, there's no place here for that kind of stupid
juvenile behavior.

Regards...

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Rafal 'Raf256' Maj wrote:
> povray.binaries.adults

Nah, that would just encourage people to start making real pr0n.

-- 
Rick

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