"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3db6f8be$2@news.povray.org...
> Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>> IMHO, nothing's changed.
> I'm not sure what you mean.

I think that making it shareware has the same effect on the spirit of this
community.  Others have a better way of putting it in nicer terms.

> Which was mostly about keeping the spirit of POV-Ray as far as I could
> tell. If freeware (sometimes with voluntary donations - think IRTC
> CD-ROMs and keyrings)

NO.
Who on the POV-Team has asked for renumeration for his services? That dough
goes to the server, AFAIK.  There is a world of difference.

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St. <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:3db6f8f9@news.povray.org...
>
> but for a wild guess now, I
> would say that you should ask for a donation of something like $7-$10(?)
with a
> donation (on your part), going to a reputable charity - that way, everyone
wins.
> This seems to work ok generally.
>

I will avoid sending money anywhere if it results in a donation being given
to a non disease related charity. I know several people who feel the same,
so you may way to take that into consideration when choosing your charity. I
and others are also wary of AIDS charities, as these charities often use the
money to advance political goals with which the donor may or may not agree.

 -Shay

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Rune <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3db6f8be$2@news.povray.org...
>
> Which was mostly about keeping the spirit of POV-Ray as far as I could
> tell. If freeware (sometimes with voluntary donations - think IRTC
> CD-ROMs and keyrings) is not the spirit of POV-Ray, then I don't know
> what is.
>

I have sent donations to freeware producers in the past. Still haven't
bought my keychain, though. Right when it was on my mind, they started
talking about cups and I decided to wait. I guess I need to go ahead and get
a keychain.

 -Shay

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Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> I think that making it shareware has the same effect
> on the spirit of this community.  Others have a better
> way of putting it in nicer terms.

I'm sorry, I have no idea about what you're talking about. Making *what*
shareware has the same effect on the community as *what*? I don't think
that there have been any mention of shareware anywhere in this
discussion so far.

> NO.
> Who on the POV-Team has asked for renumeration for his
> services? That dough goes to the server, AFAIK.  There
> is a world of difference.

Well, I'm sorry if I'm mistaken. The wording isn't quite clear.

"This page details the products we have available for sale. Sales of
these items assist us in paying our server co-location fees and also in
the general development of POV-Ray."

"General development of POV-Ray" could mean all the unpaid hours
invested in the development - but I don't know.

Besides, I also have costs of having my web site up that will probably
far exceed any donations I might get. So I can't quite see that world of
difference you're talking about.

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
rune|vision:  http://runevision.com (updated Oct 19)
POV-Ray Ring: http://webring.povray.co.uk

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3db6e281$1@news.povray.org...
> When the include files will be free for non-commercial and commercial
> use, I will instead appeal to users to make voluntary donations.

Seems fine to me.
Can't help with the details of that though (no previous experience).
In any case, thanks a lot for taking into account the remarks of the people
there !

G.


--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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> When the include files will be free for non-commercial and commercial
> use, I will instead appeal to users to make voluntary donations.

Yay! *claps*

If I ever make any money off of the use of your include files, I'll be sure
to send you some of it. It's just so nice not to have to worry about the
legal issues; it's all personal favors now. =)

 - Slime
[ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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Rune <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote:

[...]

> I've considered using one of the known public licenses. I don't really
> know anything about those. I've been recommended the GPL, and I've found
> and read version 2 of that one. Is that the newest version? I would also
> be interested in knowing if there are other alternative licenses that
> might be of interest to me.

Yes, 2 is the newest version, although there are discussions about
another version.

OK, here is an interesting licensing arrangement which I just discovered
from my partner in business. You can have a *dual* license on the same
piece of code (assuming that you are not using any code in it that has
already been GPL'd). So, you release your files under GPL, but you can
have another licensed version for commercial users who do not want to
keep the code open. 

Suppose a company wants to take your code (on which you have copyright),
develop it further, and then make it into a complied application to
distribute on a CD-Rom. You (and only you) can sell them such a license
under whatever terms you agree. Meanwhile, anyone else developing your
code further under the GPL license you released will not be able to sell
or distribute a compiled version.

The best example of this, apparently, is Qt in Linux, which has such a
dual license. If you want to develop a closed application with the Qt
library, you have to obtain a commercial license, but you are free to
use and modify the code under GPL. 

By the way, I too appreciate the civilised way in which others have
debated this issue. Whatever happens, Rune, people like you deserve the
greatest success. I hope somehow I can contribute to the povray
community one way or another.

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"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3db7061e@news.povray.org...
>
> I'm sorry, I have no idea about what you're talking about.
> Making *what* shareware has the same effect on the
> community as *what*?
>

"Voluntary donations" is what I meant by "shareware".  There is little
difference in the effect on a freeware community between your new policy and
your old  one.


> "General development of POV-Ray" could mean all the unpaid
> hours invested in the development - but I don't know.
>

That's one heck of an assumption. I assume it's the cost of a server and
maybe at most some compilers, but there's evidence they got some for free.


> Besides, I also have costs of having my web site up that will probably
> far exceed any donations I might get. So I can't quite see that world of
> difference you're talking about.
>

Do you **need** a web site for the distribution of a 37 KB  zipped file? You
could post it to  p.b.s.-f. without the P-T seeing a blip in bandwidth
costs...

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Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> "Voluntary donations" is what I meant by "shareware".

I think you've mixed up some terms there.

> There is little difference in the effect on a freeware
> community between your new policy and your old one.

Oh sorry, I didn't know you spoke on behalf of the community.

> Do you **need** a web site for the distribution of a
> 37 KB  zipped file? You could post it to  p.b.s.-f.
> without the P-T seeing a blip in bandwidth costs...

And POV-Ray could be distributed through all kinds of sites and the
newsgroups could be on Usenet, but that's not a very optimal
situation...

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
rune|vision:  http://runevision.com (updated Oct 19)
POV-Ray Ring: http://webring.povray.co.uk

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"Greg M. Johnson" <gregj:-)565### [at] aolcom> wrote in
news:3db70d62@news.povray.org: 

> "Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
> news:3db7061e@news.povray.org...
>>
>> I'm sorry, I have no idea about what you're talking about.
>> Making *what* shareware has the same effect on the
>> community as *what*?
>>
> 
> "Voluntary donations" is what I meant by "shareware".  There is little
> difference in the effect on a freeware community between your new
> policy and your old  one.
> 
> 

If I understand correctly, what Rune is planning on doing is releasing the 
code under the GPL or a similar Open Source license.  That is not shareware 
by any stretch.   You will be free to use the includes either personally or 
commercially and never send a penny.  He is not demanding donataions.  He 
will welcome them though.  Many projects on sourceforge work that way.  

I think that meshes well with the POV-Ray community.  It gives those of us 
who do not contribute code a way to still contribute.

If this is what he does with the includes, then I will be happy to send a 
thank you.  

Tom

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