Greg M. Johnson <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
: How much does it increase it?

  Too much.

  It's probably a quite small percent of the rendering time in the final pass,
but even small slowdown is too much.

: If it actually throws away the first few scans, then it's much less useful**1
: and not like Bryce's progressive render as I understand it.

  Firstly: Why would you want a progressive render in the final image?

  Secondly: With progressive render you can't use antialiasing.

: **1 If you're doing command line rendering, yeah, it's no biggie either type
: +SP or not type it.  If you have to edit your INI each time, it's more of a
: biggie.

  When I use winpov I use the command line field. You can get it with ALT-C
if I remember correctly.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Greg M. Johnson <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
: Say you're doing a 400 x 300. That's 1200 pixels.
: First you shoot pixels AS IF it were a 40 x 30, where you choose by some
: algorithm 1 pixel out of every block of 100.
: Report the color of these pixels to the viewer as if it were ONLY a 40 x 30.
: Now assume it's a 160  x 120,  shoot 3 pixels out of every block of ....... and
: so on......

  How do you calculate antialiasing here?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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In article <39b903fb@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   How do you calculate antialiasing here?

You just continue doing it for imaginary sub-pixels, and then average them.
It is no great anti-aliasing, but it still works.  Of course there is some
cost of memory attached to it, and other restrictions apply ;-)


     Thorsten


____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:39b8bd2c@news.povray.org...
| Fabien Mosen <fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote:
| :> 1) PROGRESSIVE RENDER.
|
| : You will be happy : it's already there !! Command-line options
| : +SP +EP ..
|
|   I think this is the main problem in WinPov. People don't care about
command
| line options because they have everything (that is, they think they have
| everything) in menus and buttons. So they don't even read the
documentation
| about command line options and thus miss this kind of basic options (which
| most command line users, like me, have used from the very beginning).

Well, not so for us long time POV-Ray users.  Since there wasn't a Windows
version in the beginning I never actually left the command line behind and
still use it every day.  It's about the quickest way to make a custom change
in the rendered output I know of.

Bob

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Warp wrote:

>   Firstly: Why would you want a progressive render in the final image?

I can look at the first few seconds and then walk away.
Without a progressive render along the way, I would have to decide it's OK, then
change my POVRAY.INI (or --gasp-- use command line rendering)  and then render.


>   Secondly: With progressive render you can't use antialiasing.

You're obviously more informed than I, but must this be true?

AA happens by comparing pixel colors to those around it. If there is too much
difference, it sends out new pixels, right?  So this can be done anytime at all.
Bryce does (suggests to the user) this at the end after the whole image is done.

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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> 2) VOLUME
> I'd like to be able to know the volume of an object.

Finding the exact volume is relatively easy for (closed) triangle meshes and
some primitives, but in many other cases it is very difficult. IMO it would only
be feasible if tessellation were implemented (and the volume found for the
approximated mesh representation). Anyway - strictly speaking, such tasks are
usually expected of a modeller, not a renderer like POV.

-- 
Margus Ramst

Personal e-mail: mar### [at] peakeduee
TAG (Team Assistance Group) e-mail: mar### [at] tagpovrayorg

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
:>   How do you calculate antialiasing here?

: You just continue doing it for imaginary sub-pixels, and then average them.
: It is no great anti-aliasing, but it still works.  Of course there is some
: cost of memory attached to it, and other restrictions apply ;-)

  And it would be incredibly slow. Like using always +a0 (that is,
supersampling is calculated for every pixel).

  The idea behind a non-zero antialiasing threshold is that it usually speeds
up the rendering a lot. In most simple images only a small percent of the
image has to be supersampled. Even in complex images there usually is no
need to supersample all the pixels.
  Of course the threshold needs that contiguous pixels are calculated.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Greg M. Johnson <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
: I can look at the first few seconds and then walk away.
: Without a progressive render along the way, I would have to decide it's OK, then
: change my POVRAY.INI (or --gasp-- use command line rendering)  and then render.

  You sound like using the command line field would be harder than editing
an ini file.

:>   Secondly: With progressive render you can't use antialiasing.

: You're obviously more informed than I, but must this be true?

  Ok, it's not true. You can use antialiasing, but only for every pixel.
That is, your image will get (by default) 9 times slower to render. That is,
if your scene renders in 1 hour without antialiasing, it will take
approximately 9 hours with antialiasing.

: AA happens by comparing pixel colors to those around it. If there is too much
: difference, it sends out new pixels, right?

  Yes, but if there are no nearby pixels, how can you know if the current
pixel has to be antialiased or not?

  Also continuing an interrupted render may cause problems with this kind
of progressive rendering.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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In article <39ba98c8@news.povray.org>, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> 
wrote:

>   You sound like using the command line field would be harder than 
> editing an ini file.

I personally prefer the POV-Ray Mac way: go to Render Settings, either 
by going to the edit menu or by using the Cmnd-Y shortcut. Choose the 
"Preview" pane, if it isn't already up. If you want a mosaiac preview, 
check the box for it and adjust the sliders to the start and end sizes. 
Save preferences and render.

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

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Chris Huff wrote:
> 
> In article <39ba98c8@news.povray.org>, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>
> wrote:
> 
> >   You sound like using the command line field would be harder than
> > editing an ini file.
> 
> I personally prefer the POV-Ray Mac way: go to Render Settings, either
> by going to the edit menu or by using the Cmnd-Y shortcut. Choose the
> "Preview" pane, if it isn't already up. If you want a mosaiac preview,
> check the box for it and adjust the sliders to the start and end sizes.
> Save preferences and render.

I for one would like to see (using the Win version, but the suggestion
is valid overall) a permanent command-line area, where I could type 
commands without popping a dialog box.  I also would like to be able
to have the "resolution list" permanently unrolled (in the form of a
floating element).

The Team said they were doing some GUI changes for 3.5, so wait and
see..

Fabien.

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