Hi!

Before I go on any further with the POV-Ray Logo Contest I would like to
know the opinion of the POV-Team regarding this. I though maybe one from the
TAG-Team could inform them and ask them?

What I would like to know is this:

Do the POV-Team support the idea of POV-Ray having an official logo?

If they do, is there any chance they will support the POV-Ray Logo Contest,
where the logos are made by the users and chosen by the users through
voting?

I don't expect the POV-Team to decide at this early stage where the rules
haven't been made yet, and no logos have been submitted yet, but I just want
to know if there's a chance they will support it at a later stage, because
if there isn't, there's no reason to proceed with this contest arrangement.

I would also like to know any reservations the POV-Team might have.

Thanks in advance,

Rune

---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

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Rune wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Before I go on any further with the POV-Ray Logo Contest I would like to
> know the opinion of the POV-Team regarding this. I though maybe one from the
> TAG-Team could inform them and ask them?

It would help if you could put the original entries back up on your
web site to give the team an example of what kind of logos you are
talking about. I went to the logo voting page and was going to use
that as a reference and noticed that you have taken the page down.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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"Ken" wrote:
> It would help if you could put the original
> entries back up on your web site to give the
> team an example of what kind of logos you are
> talking about. I went to the logo voting page
> and was going to use that as a reference and
> noticed that you have taken the page down.

I have not taken any page down.
Which page were you trying to access?
As far as I know, both the old URL
http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povlogos/
should work as well as the new URL
http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/logo/logo.html .

The old page is just the page with the logos; the new page contains the
logos too as well as additional information. Note though, that both logos
and rules are those of the old competition. I expect both new rules and new
logos to be made for the new contest.

Thank you for your effort Ken! :-)

Rune

---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

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Rune wrote:

> I have not taken any page down.
> Which page were you trying to access?
> As far as I know, both the old URL
> http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povlogos/

This page was 404 when I tried to access it yesterday. It does appear
to be working today though.

> Thank you for your effort Ken! :-)

I have been in touch with some of the POV-Team members but so far I have
no definitive answer as what role they are willing to take in this contest.
I'll let you know as soon as more of them have had time to respond and
put together an official response for you.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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"Ken" wrote:
> I have been in touch with some of the
> POV-Team members but so far I have no
> definitive answer as what role they
> are willing to take in this contest.
> I'll let you know as soon as more of
> them have had time to respond and put
> together an official response for you.

Thank you! I'll be waiting... :-)

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

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take your time, I've the schedule, and the competition won't
be over before 2 or 3 years ;-)

>
>I have been in touch with some of the POV-Team members but so far I have
>no definitive answer as what role they are willing to take in this contest.
>I'll let you know as soon as more of them have had time to respond and
>put together an official response for you.
>
>--
>Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
>http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Rune wrote:
> 
> "Ken" wrote:
> > I have been in touch with some of the
> > POV-Team members but so far I have no
> > definitive answer as what role they
> > are willing to take in this contest.
> > I'll let you know as soon as more of
> > them have had time to respond and put
> > together an official response for you.
> 
> Thank you! I'll be waiting... :-)

  In the mean time you may want to work a little on getting opinions on
the submission rules for the competition. For example the last round had
all entries restricted to a square aspect ration of 1:1. I see no reason
for this. There is a POV-Ray logo that the POV-Team is currently using
at povray.org that does not conform to this aspect ratio and I personally
think a 1:1 ratio artistically limiting.

  This logo http://www.povray.org/images/povlogo.gif, which has an aspect
ration of about 3.2:1, was created by the POV-Ray legend Truman Brown
using POV-Ray and was enhanced using PhotoShop. I think that an aspect
ration where the horizontal dimension exceeds the vertical dimension
should be allowed.

  As can be seen in Truman's logo a high level of craftsmanship has
been achieved. While it would be nice if a logo can be reduced to
a two tone black and white representation and still be recognizable
it should not be a mandatory rule.

  The letters "POV" while often used as a short hand for POV-Ray is
not a trademark of the program or of the POV-Team. It would be nice
to see more entries that actually use the full name of the program
(more information on this to follow in the official response).

These are my own opinions and not necessarily those of the POV-Team or
the POV-Ray TAG.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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"Ken" wrote:
> The last round had all entries restricted
> to a square aspect ration of 1:1. I see no
> reason for this. There is a POV-Ray logo
> that the POV-Team is currently using at
> povray.org that does not conform to this
> aspect ratio and I personally think a 1:1
> ratio artistically limiting.

The logo isn't limited to a square. Only the max width and height of the
image containing the logo.
You could see that many of the submitted logos for the "old" competition
were not square-formed. If the image size shouldn't be limited by a max
width and height, then we'd just have to find another way to define a limit.

> This logo http://www.povray.org/images/povlogo.gif,
> which has an aspect ration of about 3.2:1,
> was created by the POV-Ray legend Truman
> Brown using POV-Ray and was enhanced using
> PhotoShop. I think that an aspect ration
> where the horizontal dimension exceeds the
> vertical dimension should be allowed.

There must be some limit. The question is how the limit should be defined.

> As can be seen in Truman's logo a high
> level of craftsmanship has been achieved.
> While it would be nice if a logo can be
> reduced to a two tone black and white
> representation and still be recognizable
> it should not be a mandatory rule.

I disagree. If a logo is detailed, it is not always easy recognizable in
various, possible low resolutions. But a logo with few details is easy
recognizable in any format. Furthermore a simple logo can be presented in
various ways, and can be made more detailed and interesting. Different
people could make different versions/ways of presenting the logo.

Summarize: A detailed logo is always detailed and inflexible while a simple
logo can be presented in both simple and detailed ways, and is more
flexible.

> The letters "POV" while often used as a
> short hand for POV-Ray is not a trademark
> of the program or of the POV-Team. It
> would be nice to see more entries that
> actually use the full name of the program
> (more information on this to follow in
> the official response).

I agree.

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

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Rune wrote:
> 
> "Ken" wrote:
> > The last round had all entries restricted
> > to a square aspect ration of 1:1. I see no
> > reason for this. There is a POV-Ray logo
> > that the POV-Team is currently using at
> > povray.org that does not conform to this
> > aspect ratio and I personally think a 1:1
> > ratio artistically limiting.
> 
> The logo isn't limited to a square. Only the max width and height of the
> image containing the logo.
> You could see that many of the submitted logos for the "old" competition
> were not square-formed. If the image size shouldn't be limited by a max
> width and height, then we'd just have to find another way to define a limit.
 
> > This logo http://www.povray.org/images/povlogo.gif,
> > which has an aspect ration of about 3.2:1,
> > was created by the POV-Ray legend Truman
> > Brown using POV-Ray and was enhanced using
> > PhotoShop. I think that an aspect ration
> > where the horizontal dimension exceeds the
> > vertical dimension should be allowed.
> 
> There must be some limit. The question is how the limit should be defined.

I see no reason why a limit of up to 4:1 should not be allowed. This would
make a logo that would easily cover the top of a wep page or even across
the top of a piece of paper if it were printed. This is of course a ratio
of 4:1 = width:height and not 4:1 = height:width.
 
> > As can be seen in Truman's logo a high
> > level of craftsmanship has been achieved.
> > While it would be nice if a logo can be
> > reduced to a two tone black and white
> > representation and still be recognizable
> > it should not be a mandatory rule.
> 
> I disagree. If a logo is detailed, it is not always easy recognizable in
> various, possible low resolutions. But a logo with few details is easy
> recognizable in any format. Furthermore a simple logo can be presented in
> various ways, and can be made more detailed and interesting. Different
> people could make different versions/ways of presenting the logo.
> 
> Summarize: A detailed logo is always detailed and inflexible while a simple
> logo can be presented in both simple and detailed ways, and is more
> flexible.

In an electronic computer environment like POV-Ray and the WWW why would
you bother with a low resolution version of a logo ? I personally do not
see the benefit. I mean if we were creating a logo for illustrator
or some other print based program I could see a reason for it but not
in a compuer graphics related industry. Reach for the stars..........


-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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What we've been doing is rather an "icon competition", which is
not bad, since that's maybe the most common thing we see when using
POV-Ray.

However, as Ken points out, it's a little limitating, and we could
need a wider approach.  In fact, I'm thinking about some "graphical
chart", something that includes a logo, icons, color set,... and
general guidelines about how to process with the creation of a
POV-Ray-wise graphic element.

For example, I've seen Apple's graphical chart, and, on two busy 
pages, it explains how the logo is constructed, how you should
put the colors, how you should place it on bags, soft boxes,
trucks, which font to use, etc, etc...

I'm trying to find it on the web, but didn't have any success...

So, maybe we could have a contest to choose a general design
option (that would be materialised by a logo), and then declinate
a graphical chart, based on it.

Fabien.

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