Bernd M. Jordan <ber### [at] sbssiemenscom> wrote:
: One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
: really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
: times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of the
: mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
: comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.

  I don't think that anyone here uses an old-time newsreader. I suppose that
everyone uses the latest version available. Newer versions have always
newer features.
  It's just like with povray: No-one uses pov2.2 anymore. Just a few use
pov3.0. Most people use the latest version.
  The fact that povray has existed for a long time doesn't make it an old
program. You can't say "povray is an old program, you should upgrade to
3DStudio".
  In the same way: The fact that a news reader has existed for a very long
time doesn't make it an old program.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       And if TIN is great, TIN is good, it can filter out my posts if
> : they are so annoying.
> 
>   Actually tin can do it, 

	Then do it and shut up!

> but even when you would never know that I'm
> automatically ignoring your posts, 

	Why in the hell would I care? 

I find it more insulting than your
> flamewar posts about your vcard. 

	You started whatever it is. 

	Now please filter me out. 

> I have never put anyone in my kill-file
> and wouldn't want to start now.

	I would greatly prefer you did. PLEASE filter me. 

	And please stop these lame excuses for not doing what we both
agree is the best solution.

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Nieminen Mika wrote in message <37b19a95@news.povray.org>...
>Bernd M. Jordan <ber### [at] sbssiemenscom> wrote:
>: One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
>: really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
>: times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of
the
>: mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
>: comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.
>
>  I don't think that anyone here uses an old-time newsreader. I suppose
that
>everyone uses the latest version available. Newer versions have always
>newer features.

That's my point!

>  It's just like with povray: No-one uses pov2.2 anymore. Just a few use
>pov3.0. Most people use the latest version.
>  The fact that povray has existed for a long time doesn't make it an old
>program. You can't say "povray is an old program, you should upgrade to
>3DStudio".

I did not say PoV-Ray is an old program.

>  In the same way: The fact that a news reader has existed for a very long
>time doesn't make it an old program.

I didn't say that either. However, my feeling is that a newsreader unable to
process VCards, or any other form of binary attachment is lacking some of
the new features. In this case I would upgrade to take advantage of them.

>
>--
>main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
>):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

.....Opinions are my own....
Bernd M. Jordan
URL: http://members.aol.com/berndmj/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   It's just like with povray: No-one uses pov2.2 anymore. Just a few use
> pov3.0. Most people use the latest version.

 I, Ken Tyler, still use Pov v2.2 on a monthly basis. I also use the latest
version. I, Ken Tyler, am probably alone in this regard.

-- 
Ken Tyler

See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html

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Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
:> but even when you would never know that I'm
:> automatically ignoring your posts, 

: 	Why in the hell would I care? 

  It may sound hypocritical, but I have conscience. As I have posted earlier,
I don't think you are a disgusting person. Filtering you would be to me the
same as saying "I don't like that person, he is disgusting and I don't want
to see him anymore". That's not true. I want to read your articles. You
have many good things to say about POV-Ray.
  Perhaps you don't care if someone ignores you, but I certainly care if
I make such a radical thing.

  If my signature really annoys you, I can remove it. No problem.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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On 11 Aug 1999 12:12:45 -0400, Nieminen Mika wrote:
>  If my signature really annoys you, I can remove it. No problem.

You shouldn't have to do that.  Any real newsreader can hide signatures. :)

(Bad Ron!  Bad Ron!  No biscuit!)

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Ron Parker wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:58:00 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:

> >       I am unaware NS and MS being thrown off the RFC committees for
> >failure to comply.

> There is no RFC committee.  There never was.  There never will be.  And neither
> Netscape nor Microsoft would care anyway, as they're too busy carving out
> "market share" to want to bother with standards.

	No committes? That is going to be an awful surprise to the
committee members. 

	But if you to not like NS and MS don't take it out on me. Mongo
is but a pawn in the game of life. 

> >       Did I miss that post? Can you direct me to it?

> That would be the one where Warp said "get rid of the vcard crap."

	And I should obey orders to be polite. Following orders is not a
defense as you know. I did not realize Warp was der Feuhrer. 

> Works for me.  Welcome to my killfile.  

	And that is what I recommended all along. 

> If it seems lonely, that's because
> it is.  The only company you'll have in there is a few threads, because
> none of the other people on here have been stupid enough to end up there.

	Speaking of ego, lonely without you? Oh the abandonment of it
all! 

> >       As to three people it annoys and for the math guy in you, that
> >is (users<sub>tot</sub> - 3) who are at least polite enough to
> >deal with the world as it is. Is that number significantly
> >different from (users<sub>tot</sub> - 1)?

> Ugh.  HTML to do math.  When will it end?  Everyone knows you use TeX to
> do math. :)  I should point out that the four (I was mistaken) users who
> have objected to vcards are among the most prolific posters and helpful
> people on this server.  I would have thought their opinion was worth
> something to you.

	Ah well, what can we do against the people who smash the sewing
machines. They are all dunderheads. Luddites in the old days.
Today they curse graphics capable machines on the most renouned
graphics website in the known universe. 

	Are we not impressed that these folks who have not the least
problem with at 1.2M grasphics file are making such an ego play
over 24 short lines of text? 

	Are we supposed to take these people seriously? 

> >       You folks are really insisting upon a pissing contest to waste
> >disk space. Why is it so important to you?

> Because we'd like to be able to read your posts.  Well, everyone but
> me anyway.  I couldn't care less at this point.

	So do not read them. Makes no difference to me. I would prefer
you never read a word I post again. Please filter me in stead of
complaining. 

-- 
Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!

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On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:50:56 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> There is no RFC committee.  There never was.  There never will be.  And neither
>> Netscape nor Microsoft would care anyway, as they're too busy carving out
>> "market share" to want to bother with standards.
>
>	No committes? That is going to be an awful surprise to the
>committee members. 

There are the IETF and W3C and such organizations, but RFCs can be and 
are submitted by anyone without any committee involvement, unless that's 
changed within the past few years.  As it happens, I spoke too quickly: 
vcard actually is covered by an RFC.  But then, so is netiquette. :)

>> Works for me.  Welcome to my killfile.  
>
>	And that is what I recommended all along. 

Actually, I've taken you back out because I found a better solution, which I
have recommended to Warp as well.  I no longer see vcard information, because 
I modified my newsreader to kill the remainder of an article when it sees a 
line containing the vcard MIME content type.  Open Source is such a beautiful 
thing.

>> If it seems lonely, that's because
>> it is.  The only company you'll have in there is a few threads, because
>> none of the other people on here have been stupid enough to end up there.
>
>	Speaking of ego, lonely without you? Oh the abandonment of it
>all! 

Ah, that was supposed to be a joke.  You were the only person in my killfile,
so I thought you might get lonely in there with just a couple threads to 
interact with.  

>	Ah well, what can we do against the people who smash the sewing
>machines. They are all dunderheads. Luddites in the old days.
>Today they curse graphics capable machines on the most renouned
>graphics website in the known universe. 

Not at all.  I use Windows myself, as you can see from my headers.  I just 
know when a GUI is useful and when it isn't.  I read .binaries.images in
Netscape; everything else I use a more efficient interface for.

>-- 
>Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!
>--------------EE4E7EA13D77C4C3F8740D29

The above is what I see at the end of your posts now.  Ahhhh, that's so 
much better! :)

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Ron Parker wrote:

	If there is a matter of game playing I do not like, in your last
post you said "welcome to my killfile." And here you are
responsding after I am your killfile. 

	Please, do not raise in me false expectations of logical
discourse. If I am killed then I am killed, right? Please act ast
you say you do. 

	This is most disturbing and it might incite me to respond in
kind.

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On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:58:34 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:
>Ron Parker wrote:
>
>	If there is a matter of game playing I do not like, in your last
>post you said "welcome to my killfile." And here you are
>responsding after I am your killfile. 
>
>	Please, do not raise in me false expectations of logical
>discourse. If I am killed then I am killed, right? Please act ast
>you say you do. 
>
>	This is most disturbing and it might incite me to respond in
>kind.

I said I removed you from my killfile, did I not?  That removal corresponded
with the success of my patch to banish vcards from my sight.  I even said as
much in the post you're replying to here.

Now, the vcard issue seems to be resolved.  Those of us with text-mode
newsreaders almost certainly have source and can filter out vcards if 
we wish, and you've at least temporarily removed yours anyway so that
already eliminates most of the vcards we would see in any given day.
Wish I'd have had that idea last night, before this whole mess started.

I'd say the time has come for the flamewar to end, wouldn't you?  Can
we just go back to the old POV community cameraderie now?

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