On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:58:00 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:
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>Ron Parker wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:39:47 -0400, Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
>
>> >       That confirms TIN being a primitive newreader.
>
>> No, it confirms that Netscape and Microsoft wouldn't recognize the relevant RFC
>> if it was crammed up their collective asses one page at a time.  Any decent
>> newsreader has the same problem with vcards.
>
>	I am unaware NS and MS being thrown off the RFC committees for
>failure to comply. 

There is no RFC committee.  There never was.  There never will be.  And neither
Netscape nor Microsoft would care anyway, as they're too busy carving out 
"market share" to want to bother with standards.

>
>> >       So now the polite request is to switch modes depending upon
>> >which newsgroup?
>
>> No, the polite request is and has been to ditch the vcard.  Only other Netscape
>> users can make any use of it, and it conveys no additional useful information.
>
>	Did I miss that post? Can you direct me to it? 

That would be the one where Warp said "get rid of the vcard crap."

>	Scoring posts, now that appears to be a useful one. If slrn is
>to great it has the ability to filter. Use it. No difference to
>me. 

Works for me.  Welcome to my killfile.  If it seems lonely, that's because
it is.  The only company you'll have in there is a few threads, because 
none of the other people on here have been stupid enough to end up there.

>	As to three people it annoys and for the math guy in you, that
>is (users<sub>tot</sub> - 3) who are at least polite enough to
>deal with the world as it is. Is that number significantly
>different from (users<sub>tot</sub> - 1)? 

Ugh.  HTML to do math.  When will it end?  Everyone knows you use TeX to
do math. :)  I should point out that the four (I was mistaken) users who
have objected to vcards are among the most prolific posters and helpful
people on this server.  I would have thought their opinion was worth 
something to you.

>	You folks are really insisting upon a pissing contest to waste
>disk space. Why is it so important to you?

Because we'd like to be able to read your posts.  Well, everyone but 
me anyway.  I couldn't care less at this point.

Post a reply to this message

On 11 Aug 1999 02:17:35 -0400, Nieminen Mika wrote:
>  That allegation about tin has been true for long time, but since the
>newest version appeared (about a half or one year ago), it has supported
>threading, ansi colors, mouse (yes, mouse; through xterm; incredible, eh?),
>etc.

I'm glad to hear that.  Looks like it's catching up with slrn, then. :)
My slrn doesn't have mouse support, but I guess that's okay since I'm
running it under Windows in a command prompt (except when I'm running
it under Linux on a box with no X installed.)

>  I use netscape to read the binaries groups, but it's too heavy for regular
>news reading (specially in this computer (sparcstation 4) which is quite
>slow).

Likewise.  Plus, I find it occasionally loses huge blocks of posts from
the one group I do read with it.

Post a reply to this message

Ok guys,

Now that you have fought for a while (and provided me with some amusing
reading) I would like to comment on your war of words.

I am probably one of those hated outsiders because I am using Outlook
Express as a newsreader. I admit to occasional use of Netscape's newsreader
(now in version 4.61). Perhaps that alone disqualifies me from partaking in
this thread but I take my chances.

I also noticed that a few posters use VCards. They show up as a little icon
identifying them immediately as a VCard. So unless I want to get additional
info about the guy who posted I simply ignore them. Actually, my newsreaders
are smart enough to identify the type of attachment.

As far as sigs are concerned I usually ignore them too. Some are really
funny but after a while ... well, let's skip that. Oh, the ones that are
supposed to resemble something and use all those funny characters are the
worst because unless you use a typewriter font they appear just like
garbage.

One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of the
mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.

I think if you want to use your newsreader of choice and it cannot process
certain data in a way you like you either have to accept that or do
something about your application. The net is a place where people can meet
without prejudice or bias, irrespective of sex, color, belief or OS and
newsreader for that matter. And whatnot.

BTW, I am annoyed by the fact that people post huge files w/o letting me
know how large they are. So I only find out after the fact that it takes
ages to download over a phone line. Obviously, the posters have fast
Internet access or are a lot more patient than I am. Yet, I do not flame
them or ask them to not post or use a smaller resolution for their images or
do this and do that. They have a choice of medium and so do I.

Take care, guys. This newsgroup would not be what it is without you and your
contributions!

.....Opinions are my own....
Bernd M. Jordan
URL: http://members.aol.com/berndmj/

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   It would be nice, however, if you would post articles like anyone else.
> What's the big deal, anyways? What's the problem in making just a signature
> like anyone else? What's the problem with you? Why do you start a flame war?
> What's so special with a vcard anyways?
>
> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

I agree with Nieminen in the following sense. If Matt were someone who post
seldom in this news group it could be interesting to send a vcard with the
messages. But this is not the case. Matt is one of us that post the most
regularly. So his vcard is a little bit boring and to some people here
annoying. Matt, for me it would be fine if you just put  your name at the end
of your messages.

Regards, Alberto.

Post a reply to this message

Bernd M. Jordan <ber### [at] sbssiemenscom> wrote:
: One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
: really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
: times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of the
: mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
: comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.

  I don't think that anyone here uses an old-time newsreader. I suppose that
everyone uses the latest version available. Newer versions have always
newer features.
  It's just like with povray: No-one uses pov2.2 anymore. Just a few use
pov3.0. Most people use the latest version.
  The fact that povray has existed for a long time doesn't make it an old
program. You can't say "povray is an old program, you should upgrade to
3DStudio".
  In the same way: The fact that a news reader has existed for a very long
time doesn't make it an old program.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       And if TIN is great, TIN is good, it can filter out my posts if
> : they are so annoying.
> 
>   Actually tin can do it, 

	Then do it and shut up!

> but even when you would never know that I'm
> automatically ignoring your posts, 

	Why in the hell would I care? 

I find it more insulting than your
> flamewar posts about your vcard. 

	You started whatever it is. 

	Now please filter me out. 

> I have never put anyone in my kill-file
> and wouldn't want to start now.

	I would greatly prefer you did. PLEASE filter me. 

	And please stop these lame excuses for not doing what we both
agree is the best solution.

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Nieminen Mika wrote in message <37b19a95@news.povray.org>...
>Bernd M. Jordan <ber### [at] sbssiemenscom> wrote:
>: One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
>: really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
>: times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of
the
>: mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
>: comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.
>
>  I don't think that anyone here uses an old-time newsreader. I suppose
that
>everyone uses the latest version available. Newer versions have always
>newer features.

That's my point!

>  It's just like with povray: No-one uses pov2.2 anymore. Just a few use
>pov3.0. Most people use the latest version.
>  The fact that povray has existed for a long time doesn't make it an old
>program. You can't say "povray is an old program, you should upgrade to
>3DStudio".

I did not say PoV-Ray is an old program.

>  In the same way: The fact that a news reader has existed for a very long
>time doesn't make it an old program.

I didn't say that either. However, my feeling is that a newsreader unable to
process VCards, or any other form of binary attachment is lacking some of
the new features. In this case I would upgrade to take advantage of them.

>
>--
>main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
>):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

.....Opinions are my own....
Bernd M. Jordan
URL: http://members.aol.com/berndmj/

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   It's just like with povray: No-one uses pov2.2 anymore. Just a few use
> pov3.0. Most people use the latest version.

 I, Ken Tyler, still use Pov v2.2 on a monthly basis. I also use the latest
version. I, Ken Tyler, am probably alone in this regard.

-- 
Ken Tyler

See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html

Post a reply to this message

Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
:> but even when you would never know that I'm
:> automatically ignoring your posts, 

: 	Why in the hell would I care? 

  It may sound hypocritical, but I have conscience. As I have posted earlier,
I don't think you are a disgusting person. Filtering you would be to me the
same as saying "I don't like that person, he is disgusting and I don't want
to see him anymore". That's not true. I want to read your articles. You
have many good things to say about POV-Ray.
  Perhaps you don't care if someone ignores you, but I certainly care if
I make such a radical thing.

  If my signature really annoys you, I can remove it. No problem.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

On 11 Aug 1999 12:12:45 -0400, Nieminen Mika wrote:
>  If my signature really annoys you, I can remove it. No problem.

You shouldn't have to do that.  Any real newsreader can hide signatures. :)

(Bad Ron!  Bad Ron!  No biscuit!)

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