I've watched the flamewars regarding html usage, and frankly, I think it's
getting ridiculous. Half of the threads I pull are flames about html, and
half of those are in html. I understand that a lot of you run newsreaders
that don't support html and some of you have to pay for each megabyte you
download. probably the rest of you don't give a flying flip either way. That
breaks us up into roughly three groups.
 For the third group, good on you. You're more interested in the actual meat
of the matter than the frills and frippery.
 For the first group, A) Get a grip. Do you flame a webmaster because his
Netscape 4 javascript blew a tire on your IE3.01 browser? Didn't think so.
You usually just pick up and move on, gleaning the pertinent info and
disregarding the rest (unless the error makes that impossible, of course).
B) Get a better newsreader. While free may be good, getting that rinky-dinky
120K newsreader off the "Biggest Collection of Free Crap CD" that came with
"Technoweenie" magazine (wait a minute.. I think I subscribe to that one..oh
well) doesn't constitute a really smart move. You're not running Netscape
1.0, or mIRC 2.3, or POVray 1.0 so quit reading the news with something that
went out with Windows 3.0. Upgrading isn't a sin, doesn't require a great
deal of work (nor brains) and generally makes life a little easier. (Now
watch, I'll get return flame from someone running Win 3.0 using the first
release of Free Agent and Mosaic 1.0 on a 386sx16.)
As for you Pay-Per-Byte ppl: get a real ISP, you're not even getting kissed.
What possible advantage could they have? I've got unlimited access for
$15/month for Lakshmi's sake. Even AOL's better than that (and ultimately
cheaper). On a regular basis, I cycle through my Browser cache at a sitting
(which is set at 300 MEGS). Can you imagine how much that would cost in a
month? I can.. $15!
Now that I've vented that, I'm expecting another 3 dozen posts in flame..
the REAL drag to html postings. Funny.. a 2K html post generates 50K of
flame (kinda like the fliers in the Sunday paper).

--
Lue Ebra
"Only you can prevent forest fires" -Smokey the Bear

PS: I posted this in plain text format for a reason.. so you wouldn't skip
it just because it's html.

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Lue Ebra wrote:
> 
> I've watched the flamewars regarding html usage, and frankly, I think it's
> getting ridiculous.
> --
> Lue Ebra

No comment.

-- 
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

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On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:36:15 -0500, "Lue Ebra" <lue### [at] nxuscom> wrote:

>As for you Pay-Per-Byte ppl: get a real ISP, you're not even getting kissed.
>What possible advantage could they have? I've got unlimited access for
>$15/month for Lakshmi's sake. Even AOL's better than that (and ultimately

For your information -- outside the USA virtually everyone has to pay their
*phonecompany* for each second they are connected to the internet.
(The US is the only country I know of that has free local calls)

ISP's aren't the problem... And if there aren't any other / cheaper
phonecompanies around, you're pretty much stuck. 
-- 
Marc van den Dikkenberg
--
The PowerBasic Archives -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~excel/pb.html
All Basic Code Archives -- http://come.to/abcpackets

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Lue Ebra wrote:
> 
> As for you Pay-Per-Byte ppl: get a real ISP, you're not even getting kissed.
> What possible advantage could they have? I've got unlimited access for
> $15/month for Lakshmi's sake. Even AOL's better than that (and ultimately
> cheaper). On a regular basis, I cycle through my Browser cache at a sitting
> (which is set at 300 MEGS). Can you imagine how much that would cost in a
> month? I can.. $15!

This is a nice representation of a completely ignorant moron. Very realistic!

> Now that I've vented that, I'm expecting another 3 dozen posts in flame..
> the REAL drag to html postings. Funny.. a 2K html post generates 50K of
> flame (kinda like the fliers in the Sunday paper).
> 
> --
> Lue Ebra

I just couldn't resist....

Remco

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Hmm, OK, I'll just move to America now... after all, it's the only place
with free local calls, and here, you can't get UNLIMITED downloads.  You
have two plans:

1)  You pay $50 a month for unlimited hours with a download limit of 150
Mb...

or

2)  You pay $1/hour... gets expensive quick.

So, in conclusion, count yourself lucky and stop flaming off at people that
don't like HTML news messages, or you'll just receive flames back.  I think
that you are a very ignorant person and I find it sad that you live in your
own world of fantasy and have no idea what the world is really like outside.

My question to you is, if you have no problems reading HTML messages, and
you have an unlimited connection, what's the problem with reading (or just
disregarding) a few flames about HTML?  Afterall, it's not costing you any
more, and you don't have problems viewing the messages.  So what's your
problem?

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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Evidently you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
  Firstly, you have the typical attitude of a windows nerd.
  If you say to a windows nerd "a command line shell is very handy" what he
actually reads is "GUIs suck, the command line is much better than any GUI
in everything and everyone should get rid of all graphic interfaces and use
only text-based command line interpreters".
  If you say to a windows nerd "you should also take into consideration
text-based html browsers when you make a html web page" what he actually
reads is "you have to include only text in your pages, no pictures, no
frames, not even colors, no any other thing but only text".
  If you say to windows nerd "UNIX is a very good operating system" they
only see an antisocial geek sitting in a dark corner using a VT100-type
text terminal typing cryptical commands and using programs from the early
60's (everything in text mode, of course).
  An of course, if you say to a windows nerd "stop sending HTML to the news"
what they read is "stop using netscape".
  As a typical windows nerd, you even talked about mIRC as if it was the
only IRC-client out there.
  As a typical windows nerd, you confuse program development with standards
development. You think that if program X (for windows, of course) has a new
feature, that's the new standard and everyone should change to that.
  As a typical windows nerd, you suppose that people who is not using the
same programs as you are not using the latest versions and state-of-art
programs.
  As a typical windows nerd, you are completely unable to understand that
the only thing you have to do to stop sending html is to uncheck one option
in netscape and that this will not affect news reading in any way.
  As a typical windows nerd you suppose that everyone can and like to use
netscape as a news reader. It's true that almost everybody can use it, but
it isn't true that everyobdy likes it.
  Netscape takes a lot of resources (it really is a memory and cpu hog), it
takes a very long time to start an its news reader is in some aspects very
limited. Some people want to control in a more precise way what articles
they want to read and in which way.
  "Upgrading", as you call it, from an efficient real news reader to
netscape would make life a pain to those people. They will loose lots of
features they were using. It would actually be a downgrade.
  The fact that you can send html documents to the news with netscape doesn't
make it a standard. If I started to send eg. tex-documents or postscript
documents, who would read that? The fact that you can do something doesn't
mean that everyone is doing the same thing and even less that it's a
standard.

  And all the problem is that one checkbox which these windows nerds are
completely unable to uncheck.
  Luckily enough those windows nerds constitute a very little percent of
the net users (at least here).

: PS: I posted this in plain text format for a reason.. so you wouldn't skip
: it just because it's html.

  Why should you send anything in html here? I can't think of any reason.
  Ah... But windows nerds don't need reasons.

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

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Nieminen Mika schrieb in Nachricht <36b1a665.0@news.povray.org>...
>  Evidently you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
>  Firstly, you have the typical attitude of a windows nerd.


[snip]

ROTFL! Didn't have a laugh like that for some time! And I think you're
perfectly right! I think you even showed me a mirror.

I normally use Gravity (for Windows, don't like Netscape or MSIE, they're
very limited indeed), but for this I had to use MSIE, because of the HTML
messages. Gravity doesn't display html, but can "decode" them to hard disk.
This is a nuisance really.

--
Rudy Velthuis

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Lue Ebra schrieb in Nachricht <36b16545.0@news.povray.org>...
>PS: I posted this in plain text format for a reason.. so you wouldn't skip
>it just because it's html.

If you can post in plain text, which about every newsreader on the planet
can read, why use html? What is the big advantage of using html in a
newsreader, other than the limited formatting capabilities html offers? I
think Nieminen Mika is right: you are a Windows nerd. I like Windows too,
but really don't see why plain text is not good enough for a newsgroup. HTML
can be very annoying, while plain text can be read by everyone.

--
Rudy Velthuis

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On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:36:15 -0500, Lue Ebra <lue### [at] nxuscom> wrote:
> For the first group, A) Get a grip. Do you flame a webmaster because his
>Netscape 4 javascript blew a tire on your IE3.01 browser? 

Actually, yes.  I also flame "webmasters" like the morons at pepsi.com
who think making their entire site dependent on a plugin that's only 
available for Windows is a good idea.

>B) Get a better newsreader. While free may be good, getting that rinky-dinky
>120K newsreader off the "Biggest Collection of Free Crap CD" that came with
>"Technoweenie" magazine

My newsreader has features the lusers who wrote Outlook Express have
never even heard of.  Ever heard of scorefiles?  Didn't think so.
'sokay, you'll get introduced to one soon enough.
  
I'm not even using a Windows newsreader, you dolt.  The world consists
of more than just Windows and Microsoft and Netscape.  And while I'm 
distributing hints with the clue-by-four, Agent (the full, registered,
current version) does not support rendering HTML.  It doesn't have to.
HTML is not part of the RFC that covers Usenet News.

>As for you Pay-Per-Byte ppl: get a real ISP, you're not even getting kissed.

Hey, luser, some of them are in countries where they pay PER MINUTE for
LOCAL CALLS.  What are they gonna do, get a different telephone company?

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Since I'm tired of windows nerds saying lies as "unix is in text mode only"
or "there are no programs for unix", I started a couple of programs in this
Sparcstation 5 with SunOS and took a snapshot.

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~warp/snapshot.gif

  (Of course all those programs would be situated in separated screens in the
virtual desktop, but I put them together for the "photograph".)
  There wasn't enough space for a word processing program, but I thought the
spreadsheet would be enough proof that there are that kind of programs too.
  Btw, I just saw in the snapshot that GIMP's gradient editor can also save
in povray format. Cool. I have to test that.

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

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