>There was a program on TV a few weeks ago that talked about differences
>between male and female brain functions... (yeah, interesting eh? ;)... but
>one thing it did appear to show (from medical and experimental data) was
>that the majority of women find it considerably harder to visualise 3D
>images/objects/space than men.

Odd, in light of the fact that I was taught that women were better at
spatial relations than men. Of course, they seem to routinely change
their findings on this topic...

But POV-Ray is the intersection of two geek (not a perjorative) fields:
computing in general, and specifically math. Women are underrepresented
in computing and math (and engineering and hard sciences in general)
mostly for social reasons, IMO; there's still the perception that somehow
these fields are ones women are not suited for, and a lot of times women
spend so much time being not taken seriously even when they /are/ good in
these fields that they just stop participating in them.  This is based
primarily on personal and purely anecdotal experience, of course, but
overall the general consensus among my female geek friends (and even some
of the male ones) is that people see a resume' with a female name and
computing experience and think 'overglorified secretary'... in the face
of that, it's easy to get discouraged. In other words, we have a hard
time being taken seriously. Pretty much everyone I know locally doing
computing for a living agrees that this is a widespread problem of
perception. If you're female /and/ you're self-taught, getting a job is
extremely difficult. If you can /get/ to the interview stage... well,
that works better. Hell, even in web design, which is not precisely a
highly technical field, men seem to get taken more seriously than women.

Er... pardon my soap box. I'll just put that back away now.

Anyhow, I'm female, and I'm into POV-Ray. Admittedly, I'm not all that
good at it yet, but that's a matter of practice... I like it not just
because it's cool to be able to do 3D stuff but also because the computer
draws better than I do. :)

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tin### [at] tezcatcom wrote:
> 
> >There was a program on TV a few weeks ago that talked about differences
> >between male and female brain functions... (yeah, interesting eh? ;)... but
> >one thing it did appear to show (from medical and experimental data) was
> >that the majority of women find it considerably harder to visualise 3D
> >images/objects/space than men.
> 
> Odd, in light of the fact that I was taught that women were better at
> spatial relations than men. Of course, they seem to routinely change
> their findings on this topic...

I have heard the same as you concerning spatial relations.

> 
> But POV-Ray is the intersection of two geek (not a perjorative) fields:
> computing in general, and specifically math. Women are underrepresented
> in computing and math (and engineering and hard sciences in general)
> mostly for social reasons, IMO; there's still the perception that somehow
> these fields are ones women are not suited for, and a lot of times women
> spend so much time being not taken seriously even when they /are/ good in
> these fields that they just stop participating in them.  This is based
> primarily on personal and purely anecdotal experience, of course, but
> overall the general consensus among my female geek friends (and even some
> of the male ones) is that people see a resume' with a female name and
> computing experience and think 'overglorified secretary'... in the face
> of that, it's easy to get discouraged. In other words, we have a hard
> time being taken seriously. Pretty much everyone I know locally doing
> computing for a living agrees that this is a widespread problem of
> perception. If you're female /and/ you're self-taught, getting a job is
> extremely difficult. If you can /get/ to the interview stage... well,
> that works better. Hell, even in web design, which is not precisely a
> highly technical field, men seem to get taken more seriously than women.
> 
> Er... pardon my soap box. I'll just put that back away now.

A topic for another day :)

> 
> Anyhow, I'm female, and I'm into POV-Ray. Admittedly, I'm not all that
> good at it yet, but that's a matter of practice... I like it not just
> because it's cool to be able to do 3D stuff but also because the computer
> draws better than I do. :)

  That was my attraction to the program. I can't draw decent stick
men with a pencil but with Pov-Ray my artistic skills, be they what
they are, have found an avenue of expression. Something I never would
have thought possible a few short years ago. Such is the reason that
I would have thought more women too would enjoy the art. Maybe they
do but are just under represented in the newgroups.

-- 
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

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Well, there have been some regular female IRTC participants, I'm
currently thinking of Sonya Roberts, Mary-Ann Mandel and Ethel McKay.
There are some others, but their names doesn't come to mind right now...

Fabien.

Post a reply to this message

Fabien Mosen wrote:
> 
> Well, there have been some regular female IRTC participants, I'm
> currently thinking of Sonya Roberts, Mary-Ann Mandel and Ethel McKay.
> There are some others, but their names doesn't come to mind right now...
> 
> Fabien.

  I've been waiting for someone to bring this up. I agree there
are female pov artists out there, Jenni Williams a regular poster
in the images group for one Eric's wife for another, but they seem
to be the exception rather than the rule. When I posed the question
it was carefully stated "the majority" rather than the "only users".
I didn't want to be exclusionary in my observations and obviously
Sonya has made some excellent contributions in not only the art but
also in passing along her knowledge of the program to others.

-- 
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote in message <36886953.C40E7E29@pacbell.net>...
>tin### [at] tezcatcom wrote:
>>
>> >There was a program on TV a few weeks ago that talked about differences
>> >between male and female brain functions... (yeah, interesting eh? ;)...
but
>> >one thing it did appear to show (from medical and experimental data) was
>> >that the majority of women find it considerably harder to visualise 3D
>> >images/objects/space than men.
>>
>> Odd, in light of the fact that I was taught that women were better at
>> spatial relations than men. Of course, they seem to routinely change
>> their findings on this topic...
>
>I have heard the same as you concerning spatial relations.


Hey, sorry... I was just reporting what I'd heard on a science program last
month. I don't really have any way to verify it personally though, so I
suppose it can't be taken as my own view.  Just seemed a reasonable reason,
that's all..


Matt

Post a reply to this message

I prefer some of the images produced by the (women, girls, gals,
females....) over what
some of the (men, boys, guys, males...) produce.  It seems that a majority
(not all) of what
the males produce are space ship related.  If there are any (women, girls,
gals, females....)
reading this, please continue to post your images - they are certainly
enjoyed by me, if not
others.

Mike


Ken wrote in message <36887AD3.472B2570@pacbell.net>...
>Fabien Mosen wrote:
>>
>> Well, there have been some regular female IRTC participants, I'm
>> currently thinking of Sonya Roberts, Mary-Ann Mandel and Ethel McKay.
>> There are some others, but their names doesn't come to mind right now...
>>
>> Fabien.
>
>  I've been waiting for someone to bring this up. I agree there
>are female pov artists out there, Jenni Williams a regular poster
>in the images group for one Eric's wife for another, but they seem
>to be the exception rather than the rule. When I posed the question
>it was carefully stated "the majority" rather than the "only users".
>I didn't want to be exclusionary in my observations and obviously
>Sonya has made some excellent contributions in not only the art but
>also in passing along her knowledge of the program to others.
>
>--
>Ken Tyler
>
>tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

Treading carefully, here I go ...

I disagree with the Social Engineering analysis presented by Tina.  My
experience, in Engineering and IT Consulting, is that this area of endeavor
is well represented by many women.  I hire them and have for 20 some years
(in companies large (e.g. Ford) and small (too many examples to count ...)).
As a matter of fact, my wife has a BSCE, BSEE, MSEE and is very active in
these areas.  The IT projects I currently manage are staffed at least by 50%
females or more.

So ...

I think some other comments made in this thread need to be re-examined in
the light of current reality and not colored by past prejudice or opinions
or other politically motivated criteria that are inappropriate for
discussion here.

Jim

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Hi all

As an old man who has been around the arts for a long time I personaly feel
that women have established themselves very much as artists and creators.

I feel that women artists bring a percetion and sensitivity to the
expression of human experience that few men if any can match.

I can't speak for the science but the more we encourage the ladies to use
pov the higher the standard of the images will be.

Mick

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Ken heeft geschreven in bericht <36886953.C40E7E29@pacbell.net>...
>  That was my attraction to the program. I can't draw decent stick
>men with a pencil but with Pov-Ray my artistic skills, be they what
>they are, have found an avenue of expression. Something I never would
>have thought possible a few short years ago. Such is the reason that
>I would have thought more women too would enjoy the art. Maybe they
>do but are just under represented in the newgroups.
>
>--
>Ken Tyler
>
>tyl### [at] pacbellnet

I have learned to draw be look how the computer did it :-)
Well...  I can draw a bit, I even could it long before I've ever seen a
renderprogram, but using shading and such things, I've learned that by
rendering on the computer (mostly with POVRay).
So, rendering has thought me how to draw.

ZK

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That's what I heard as well.  I thought it was that women use visual senses
more than gravitational senses to determine spatial orientation and that it
is therefore harder for them to visualise 3D objects etc... I think that's
what it was anyway, maybe I should do a little research on it.  In any case,
there are more female 3D artists out there than most people give credit for.
One that comes to mid straight away is Eni Oken (www.oken3d.com).  I think
for the most part females have more artisitic ability than males.

--
Lance.


---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
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Matthew Bennett wrote in message <3688e58f.0@news.povray.org>...
>
>Ken wrote in message <36886953.C40E7E29@pacbell.net>...
>>tin### [at] tezcatcom wrote:
>>>
>>> >There was a program on TV a few weeks ago that talked about differences
>>> >between male and female brain functions... (yeah, interesting eh? ;)...
>but
>>> >one thing it did appear to show (from medical and experimental data)
was
>>> >that the majority of women find it considerably harder to visualise 3D
>>> >images/objects/space than men.
>>>
>>> Odd, in light of the fact that I was taught that women were better at
>>> spatial relations than men. Of course, they seem to routinely change
>>> their findings on this topic...
>>
>>I have heard the same as you concerning spatial relations.
>
>
>Hey, sorry... I was just reporting what I'd heard on a science program last
>month. I don't really have any way to verify it personally though, so I
>suppose it can't be taken as my own view.  Just seemed a reasonable reason,
>that's all..
>
>
>Matt
>
>

Post a reply to this message