In article <35C### [at] khrimorjp> , "Y.Tanabe" <tec### [at] khrimorjp> wrote:

>Mac POV-Ray3.1 beta5 remains bug in mesh.
>Would you please test this file,but beta 4 made crash.
>Y.Tanabe
>Kobe,Japan

I will see if (and why) it crashes. If it does not crash on my Mac this usually does
not mean that there is *no* bug, it will mean that it does not occure on my Mac, so if
you have the time, please fill out a Mac bug report form and send it to
pov### [at] compuservecom so Eduard and I can track it down together.


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom

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On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 17:05:17 +0200, Thorsten Froehlich 
<Tho### [at] csicom> wrote:
>BTW, maybe windows bug reports better fit in the window section of this 
>newsgroup?

Windows bugs go to win### [at] povrayorg, as stated in the windows docs.

I didn't see it before either, but Chris Young was nice enough to point out 
to me that other bugs should go to his Compuserve address, as documented on 
the page where you downloaded the beta.

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Since I seem to have not followed the proper proceedures
for posting a bug report and trying to elicit responses from
other POV-Ray users that might also be having similar
problems I have cancled my bug report messages. In the
future I will just remain silent on the subject and hope others
will take the time to help improve it by letting the POV-Ray
team aware of problems.
I'm Sorry.

K.Tyler

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On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 06:18:38 -0700, K. Tyler <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>Since I seem to have not followed the proper proceedures
>for posting a bug report and trying to elicit responses from
>other POV-Ray users that might also be having similar
>problems I have cancled my bug report messages. In the
>future I will just remain silent on the subject and hope others
>will take the time to help improve it by letting the POV-Ray
>team aware of problems.

You seem to have missed the point.  While we as other users love to see
bug reports, it doesn't help the POV-Team when you post them here, because
they're too busy working on POV to waste time reading every message that gets
posted, even to their own news server.  It certainly doesn't hurt anything
to post bug reports here (though you should probably put binary attachments
in one of the binaries groups) but it doesn't get the bug fixed either.  To 
get that done, you must send the bug report to a responsible party as well.

In my never humble opinion, if you're not going to take the responsibility 
to report bugs, you shouldn't be allowed to use the beta.

For bugs in the windows port: win### [at] povrayorg 

For bugs in the POV code itself: 767### [at] compuservecom

See Thorsten's post above for the Mac bug address.

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For the record I sent in an offical bug report to win### [at] povrayorg
but will stick to my dicision not to post any more to this news group.

K.Tyler

Ron Parker wrote:

> You seem to have missed the point.  While we as other users love to see
> bug reports, it doesn't help the POV-Team when you post them here, because
> they're too busy working on POV to waste time reading every message that gets
> posted, even to their own news server.  It certainly doesn't hurt anything
> to post bug reports here (though you should probably put binary attachments
> in one of the binaries groups) but it doesn't get the bug fixed either.  To
> get that done, you must send the bug report to a responsible party as well.
>
> In my never humble opinion, if you're not going to take the responsibility
> to report bugs, you shouldn't be allowed to use the beta.
>
> For bugs in the windows port: win### [at] povrayorg
>
> For bugs in the POV code itself: 767### [at] compuservecom
>
> See Thorsten's post above for the Mac bug address.

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K. Tyler wrote:

> For the record I sent in an offical bug report to win### [at] povrayorg
> but will stick to my dicision not to post any more to this news group.

You are free to do whatever you like, though it is a shame to close your doors to
the ones who appreciated your input in there just because you received some not
very helpful criticism.Yet if you listen to the criticism carefully, it first said
it would have been nicer if you had warned you were reporting a windows bug as it
would have saved someone lots of time.

I will not ask you to continue or discontinue posting your bug reports here, I just
wanted to let you know that simply because you see one reaction does not mean
everybody thinks along the same lines. Any contribution will always be helpful, a
better contribution will be even more helpful.

Cheers, enjoy your own decision whatever it is,
Al.

--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :

To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.

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Alain CULOS wrote:

> You are free to do whatever you like, though it is a shame to close your doors to
> the ones who appreciated your input in there just because you received some not
> very helpful criticism.Yet if you listen to the criticism carefully, it first said
> it would have been nicer if you had warned you were reporting a windows bug as it
> would have saved someone lots of time.
>
> I will not ask you to continue or discontinue posting your bug reports here, I just
> wanted to let you know that simply because you see one reaction does not mean
> everybody thinks along the same lines. Any contribution will always be helpful, a
> better contribution will be even more helpful.
>
> Cheers, enjoy your own decision whatever it is,
> Al.

    My decision to not post bug reports here are not based so much on
my personal feelings but instead based on the reality of protocol. After
reading Chris Young's reply's to bug reports over on c.g.r.r. I came to
realize that this really is not the forum for such discussion. Further more
to squawk publicly here about problems with pov and expect something
positive to come of it is really a naive and non-productive attitude.
Nothing will come of it so why expend the energy.
    So I did what, I thought, would do the most good for me as a user
and hopefully the benefit of others. And that was to stop the thread and
go through official channels like I should have in the first place.
    On the other hand in the future if I have an opinion on a feature I
don't like, or the way some new function is introduced that seems
whacky, I will enlist support from the voices of the many. At that time
you may certainly anticipate me posting to this, or whatever appropriate
newsgroup,  in CAPITOL letters decrying the injustices we must suffer
as users of this expensively free software that doesn't offer all the options
a $25,000 dollar commercial package has.

Until then ...

K.Tyler

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K. Tyler wrote:

>     On the other hand in the future if I have an opinion on a feature I
> don't like, or the way some new function is introduced that seems
> whacky, I will enlist support from the voices of the many. At that time
> you may certainly anticipate me posting to this, or whatever appropriate
> newsgroup,  in CAPITOL letters decrying the injustices we must suffer
> as users of this expensively free software that doesn't offer all the options
> a $25,000 dollar commercial package has.


Is that sarcasm or a sort of third degree humour I don't have enough of something to
understand ?
Again, it's a pitty you should close your doors just because a few push to get them
closed, when so many just like them open but don't speak up much.

Cheers again,
Al.

--
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To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.

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I'll put it simply without wit witticism this time
.
If you or someone else would like to debate the funcionality
or shortcomings of a feature in POV-Ray I'd be happy to
contribute in any way my experiance level will allow.

On the other hand if I discover what I suspect to be a bug in
the software, that can affect the functionality of the program
for all users,  and I feel that after exhausting the available options
to work around the suspected bug, I will deal with it through
the recommended official channels. As was already pointed
out, by the POV-Ray Mac programmer on this thread, this is
not the place to post POV-Ray programing bug reports. If we
want them to listen to us about possible problems they expect
us to make it as easy as possible for them to recieve them.
This is especialy true when they are in the beta stages of an
offical revision to the software.

K.Tyler

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K. Tyler wrote:
> 
> I'll put it simply without wit witticism this time
> .
> If you or someone else would like to debate the funcionality
> or shortcomings of a feature in POV-Ray I'd be happy to
> contribute in any way my experiance level will allow.
> 

The difference between discussion of feature shortcomings and
discussing bugs may be very diffuse. After lengthy discussion
on a newsgroup it may well turn out that (all think) it's a
bug.

> On the other hand if I discover what I suspect to be a bug in
> the software, that can affect the functionality of the program
> for all users,  and I feel that after exhausting the available options
> to work around the suspected bug, I will deal with it through

Usually after having discussed it with others. That's why
I second Al: don't close the door!

> the recommended official channels. As was already pointed
> out, by the POV-Ray Mac programmer on this thread, this is
> not the place to post POV-Ray programing bug reports. If we
> want them to listen to us about possible problems they expect
> us to make it as easy as possible for them to recieve them.
> This is especialy true when they are in the beta stages of an
> offical revision to the software.
> 
> K.Tyler

-Hans- 


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