"Stephen Klebs" <skl### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> That's fascinating. I was a furniture designer in a previous life. I designed
> before there was CAD and modellers and after. Before, to picture how all the
> pieces would look together I would just have to go lie down and close my eyes
> and just move everything around in my head. See it from different angles, try it
> with different shapes. I first discovered POV as an aid. Looking back all my
> best designs came out of that process of using one's imagination rather than
> letting the techniques of software controlling what it has been programmed to
> pre-visualize what it thinks you should see.
>

Well, of course. If you imagined metropolis extraterrestrial civilization ...
sure every building (40 thousand buildings) need to create a text editor ...
From this you will get great pleasure, but your people will see a picture after
a Flood.
:)))

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Sherry K. Shaw <ten### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> I have a Big Giant Truckload of OCD going on and that imprecision is 
> _precisely_ what bothers me.
> 

I paint also, oils, acrylics, Sumi-e, watercolor...and I always, precisely
to scale, sketch the design of what I will paint in advance within a graph
paper sketch book.

Then when transferring to canvas I utilize techniques I picked up in
drafting classes to replicate the design exactly down to the limit of
precision of my measuring instruments. This takes a while.

When actually painting I ensure my lines are of exact width, unwavering in
shape be it curved or straight, and enforce some overarching algorithmic
relationship between the colors, positions and etc..

> OCD and I are old friends.  We have reached an agreement.  Whenever I 
> find myself starting to count, I instead start to sing (preferably 
> subvocally, out of consideration for the rest of the world).  I don't 
> REALLY know how many steps it is from the front door of my house to the 
> driver's door of my car, because that would be creepy.*

I do not manifest it as such, but instead as a visceral disgust for any
imprecision originating with myself in works to which I dedicate and amount
of time and effort. 

I hate paper and paperwork, can tolerate only mild to moderate
disorganization unless priorities prevent rectification of such or would
otherwise be disadvantageous.

> But deliberate imprecision...???  When precision is readily available...???
> 

And easy to achieve.

> The human fingertip makes a really crappy mouse cursor.  It doesn't have 
> a hotspot marked, and it obscures the point of contact just as a basic 
> factor of its structure.  And there's a keyboard with a number pad on it 
> RIGHT THERE...

YES! That!

> So.....one million bonus points to whoever remembers the name of that 
> Asimov story about the little genius boy who could do simple arithmetic 
> without a calculator, since I think it sort of applies to this issue.
> 

I haven't read that one, but will look out for it.

Since 2013 (for sci-fi) I have read the entire Foundation series, all of
the Dune books, The Wheel of Time, The Dark Tower series ...nearly all of
the works by the following (some specific listed series only): David Brin,
Stephen Baxter, Terry Pratchett, Greg Egan, Peter f Hamilton, Ian Douglas,
Arthur C Clarke, Gregory Benford, Alastair Reynolds, Vernor Vinge, Larry
Niven, Robert Charles Wilson, Kevin J Anderson (specifically the Saga of
the Seven Suns and its extension), Michael McCloskey, Jerry Pournelle, Iain
M Banks, Dan Simmons, H.P. Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, Willian Hope
Hodgeson....I have a list of others I am burning through currently but I am
not done with their works, so they don't go on this list yet.

If you haven't read these folks and can tolerate world-views and political
thought potentially in diametric opposition to your own and still enjoy the
content (such was the case with me), check them all out. Peter F Hamilton
is one of the best in my opinion, but they are all good in different ways.

I can't sleep much and so read books, journal papers or write code instead.
I might as well better myself.

> --Sherry Shaw
> 
> * 43, unless I park funny.  OH, GACK!  "The ants go marching one by one, 
> hurrah, hurrah.  The ants go marching one by one, hurrah, hurrah..."
>

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Stephen Klebs <skl### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
L
> That's fascinating. I was a furniture designer in a previous life. I designed
> before there was CAD and modellers and after. Before, to picture how all the
> pieces would look together I would just have to go lie down and close my eyes
> and just move everything around in my head. See it from different angles, try it
> with different shapes. I first discovered POV as an aid. Looking back all my
> best designs came out of that process of using one's imagination rather than
> letting the techniques of software controlling what it has been programmed to
> pre-visualize what it thinks you should see.
> 

Exactly; the same phenomena of "brain drain" is occurring in all fields.
The reliance upon tools fundamentally weakens our ability to operate
without them. There is nothing wrong with tools in and of themselves, and
through their use we can perform metatasks quite quickly, but like Opioids
used incorrectly, it can quickly grow into a dependence...and that is
certainly not good.

I look at the elementary school mathematics books from my grandfather, and
compare those to what is being used here (USA) now and the difference is
utterly stark.

Whereas long ago Algebra was truly a fundamental part of all early
education, now it is relegated to GT/AG classes and for the rest it is
delayed until much later in the curricula of standard public education.
This is sick. Why break the minds of an entire people?

That among the whole flood of propaganda is why my son goes to a private
school, does not watch TV, have a phone, use the internet, play video games
or any other such nonsense.

He does own a laptop, and I am teaching him how to program and construct
various forms of robotic and autonomous systems, as he is very interested
in that subject along with Chemistry. He is six, and I am quite sure that
were he exposed to mass media he would not manifest nearly such affinity
for science and technology.

Now I'm really, *really* OT.
Oh well. Free-for-all! Lol

Ian

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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> Sounds like you two would be better off with a CAD modeller rather than 
> a mesh-based modeller. Draw what you like, but then you can 
> constrain/dimension features, either with precise numerical values or 
> equations/scripts.
> 
> For example, it's quite common to have a generic model of a screw, with 
> parameters for length and diameter. The model is created in such a way 
> that just changing those two parameters updates the model instantly.
> 

This is why I have FormZ (love formz), Rhino+Grasshopper, CanvasX14 and so
on. :)

Z-Brush would give me nightmares. Lol

Ian

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ingo <ing### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> in news:582b029d$1@news.povray.org clipka wrote:
> 
>>>> The problem with Blender is that it is so big [...]
> 
>> Maybe someone should get involved with Blender UI development, and
>> implement an alternative UI for noobs, exposing only a subset of the
>> features, [...]
> 
> one "GUI" for one task, blend out everything else. Push all GUI elements 
> to a second screen.
> 
> Ingo
> 
> 

The blender UI, rumor had it long ago, was intentionally (or
retro-intentionally) obfuscated in order to fund the app by selling manuals
and such. At least that was the rumor years ago, and after using it
(well...trying to) I could totally buy that conjecture. ;D

Or it could have been a consequence of design-by-committee. :p

I have not attempted to do so in years though, and based on the
conversation here perhaps it is time I did.

My ideal UI would be like TrueSpace 3 + Bryce + Houdini.
Hell, Houdini is frankly in my opinion perfect. I just cannot afford it,
though there is a free version and a cheap version I like to own full
versions, so Lightwave haha!

Ian

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in
news:135### [at] newspo
vray.org [GDS|Entropy] wrote: 

> The blender UI, rumor had it long ago, was intentionally (or
> retro-intentionally) obfuscated in order to fund the app by selling
> manuals and such. 

't was an inhouse tool before released to the public and at that time it 
already had this "informal" GUI.

I liked sPatch but it needed way to many mouse clicks, I still use Silo 
every now and then and loved 3D Studio R4. There also used to be an 
excellent blob moddeler with blob-splines and stuff and Leveller for 
terrains.

Ingo

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On 2016-11-15 3:53 PM, [GDS|Entropy] wrote:
> ingo <ing### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> in news:582b029d$1@news.povray.org clipka wrote:
>>
>>>>> The problem with Blender is that it is so big [...]
>>
>>> Maybe someone should get involved with Blender UI development, and
>>> implement an alternative UI for noobs, exposing only a subset of the
>>> features, [...]
>>
>> one "GUI" for one task, blend out everything else. Push all GUI elements
>> to a second screen.
>>
>> Ingo
>>
>>
>
> The blender UI, rumor had it long ago, was intentionally (or
> retro-intentionally) obfuscated in order to fund the app by selling manuals
> and such. At least that was the rumor years ago, and after using it
> (well...trying to) I could totally buy that conjecture. ;D
>
> Or it could have been a consequence of design-by-committee. :p
>
> I have not attempted to do so in years though, and based on the
> conversation here perhaps it is time I did.
>
> My ideal UI would be like TrueSpace 3 + Bryce + Houdini.
> Hell, Houdini is frankly in my opinion perfect. I just cannot afford it,
> though there is a free version and a cheap version I like to own full
> versions, so Lightwave haha!
>
> Ian
>

Funny you should mention TrueSpace. I met up with the author and founder 
of the company - Roman Ormandy.  We discussed having me write a new 
rendering back-end for TrueSpace to allow for raytracing and other 
things.  We never started on the project but it was great meeting him. 
We both admired each others' work.

David Buck

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Am 15.11.2016 um 21:53 schrieb [GDS|Entropy]:

> The blender UI, rumor had it long ago, was intentionally (or
> retro-intentionally) obfuscated in order to fund the app by selling manuals
> and such. At least that was the rumor years ago, and after using it
> (well...trying to) I could totally buy that conjecture. ;D
> 
> Or it could have been a consequence of design-by-committee. :p

The software started out as an in-house tool. For me that's explanation
enough for a crappy UI.

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ingo <ing### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> in
> news:135### [at] newspo
> vray.org [GDS|Entropy] wrote: 
> 
>> The blender UI, rumor had it long ago, was intentionally (or
>> retro-intentionally) obfuscated in order to fund the app by selling
>> manuals and such. 
> 
> 't was an inhouse tool before released to the public and at that time it 
> already had this "informal" GUI.
> 
> I liked sPatch but it needed way to many mouse clicks, I still use Silo 
> every now and then and loved 3D Studio R4. There also used to be an 
> excellent blob moddeler with blob-splines and stuff and Leveller for 
> terrains.
> 
> Ingo
> 

I actually still have a copy of Leveller and sPatch kicking around in one
of my raid stacks somewhere still. I keep *everything*. ;)

Ian

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David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> Funny you should mention TrueSpace. I met up with the author and founder 
> of the company - Roman Ormandy.  We discussed having me write a new 
> rendering back-end for TrueSpace to allow for raytracing and other 
> things.  We never started on the project but it was great meeting him. 
> We both admired each others' work.
> 
> David Buck
> 

Oh man that would have been awesome! TrueSpace with Pov Power...

This is yet another reason for me to never forgive Microsoft for what they
did to TrueSpace, which was an act of digital terrorism IMO. Like DAZ
essentially killing Carrara and Bryce. I'd rather they open source it than
let the product die.

Ian

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