"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
>
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
>
> -- Chris R

Yeah that's really come together, excellent work Chris!

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"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
>
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
>
> -- Chris R

Just checking that you do know about saving radiosity data with basic textures
(or even basic objects) and no anti-aliasing etc then doing a 2nd pass of the
render where you load the radiosity data/turn on the proper textures etc.

I have in several cases done a radiosity render where I swap out my isosurfaces
for box/sphere etc (where the isosurface is not too deformed from a box. I
imagine this would work OK for your bricks.

On an image note, looks a lot better, all looks in perspective now, I do think
the wall joining the floor would be improved by a skirting board.

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Op 08/03/2024 om 14:53 schreef Chris R:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
> 
> [snip]
> 
Very good work indeed!

(maybe you could check the width of the chairs? They seem to be a bit 
too wide, but that can also be perspective deformation...)

-- 
Thomas

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hi,

"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  ...
> ... I'm pretty happy over all with the results.

and you ought to be!  one can almost "see" the ghosts of the diners.  :-)

re Thomas + chairs, made me think that thin padding / cushions might be nice to
have.


regards, jr.

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"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.

The champagne flutes still look too narrow.  The pictures of champagne flutes
I've seen have a bowl height to diameter ratio of about 2.5.

The chair backs look uncomfortably straight and low.  Leroy has a good chair at
<https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-lrchairs>, though I don't know if it would
fit the atmosphere you're trying to achieve.

The forks and spoon are better, but they still look somewhat awkward.  I think
what would help are variable width along the length of the handle and some
curvature where the handle meets the business end.

The napkins are very much improved!

> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.

I don't know how you did it, but the image looks perfectly fine without
radiosity.  If you hadn't pointed it out, I would not have known that radiosity
wasn't used.

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Il 08/03/2024 14:53, Chris R ha scritto:
> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> the spilled champagne on the table.
> 
> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
> 
> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
> 
> -- Chris R

The mood is nice, maybe I would put placemats under the dishes.

Paolo

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Le 2024-03-08 à 12:57, s.day a écrit :
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
>> This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
>> a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
>> the spilled champagne on the table.
>>
>> This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
>> radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
>> dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
>> are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
>> the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
>> I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>>
>> Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
>> sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
>> is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
>>
>> -- Chris R
> 
> Just checking that you do know about saving radiosity data with basic textures
> (or even basic objects) and no anti-aliasing etc then doing a 2nd pass of the
> render where you load the radiosity data/turn on the proper textures etc.
> 
> I have in several cases done a radiosity render where I swap out my isosurfaces
> for box/sphere etc (where the isosurface is not too deformed from a box. I
> imagine this would work OK for your bricks.
> 
> On an image note, looks a lot better, all looks in perspective now, I do think
> the wall joining the floor would be improved by a skirting board.
> 

Now, with a combination of the no_radiosity, no_image, no_shadow and 
no_reflection, it can be done in one step.

Make the complex object have the no_radiosity attribute so that the 
radiosity ignore it entirely.
Then, have the simplified object have no_image no_shadow no_reflection 
attributes so that you don't see it directly or in reflection and it 
don't cast any shadow.

Here, placing a plane with a simple brick pattern just on front of the 
brick wall should do the trick.

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Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> > a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> > the spilled champagne on the table.
> >
> > This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> > radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> > dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> > are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> > the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> > I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
> >
> > Anyway, I may do some renders from different points of view, and the letter
> > sitting on the napkin ring needs some tweaking so you can tell better what it
> > is, but I'm pretty happy over all with the results.
> >
> > -- Chris R
> Some times, removing most or all of the lights and using radiosity can
> improve the rendering performance. When you have a lot of lights, the
> shadow tests can really bog you down.
> Replace the lights with some high emission surfaces for the
> illumination. Bonus : Free soft shadows.
> Use the importance mechanism. The light need radiosity{importance 1}
> The count can be over 10000.
> Then, have
> #default{radiosity{importance Desired_Count/High_count}}
> Desired_count can be relatively low, like 80 to 120.
> Using the two values format for count usually seems to give better
> results. count 14000, 15557
> Also use the two values format for nearest_count. This improve the
> performance during the pretrace phase. nearest_count 3, 20
> Use a small value for pretrace_end. The default is usually to big.
> pretrace_end 0.0025 or 0.00125
> Use a smaller value for low_error_factor. In many cases, the default of
> 0.5 is to big.
>
> If some surfaces are causing to much problems, you can use two objects :
> The object that we see have no_radiosity.
> The fake object have a much simpler geometry and texture. A simple plane
> with a brick pattern with no_image no_reflection no_shadow
These are good suggestions.  I'm going to start doing some experiments replacing
the light sources with radiosity emission, and then playing around with the idea
of simple objects with no_image etc.  That would probably work really well with
the rough brick walls and should be fairly easy to implement.

I'll keep you posted...

-- Chris R

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 08/03/2024 om 14:53 schreef Chris R:
> > This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> > a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> > the spilled champagne on the table.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> Very good work indeed!
>
> (maybe you could check the width of the chairs? They seem to be a bit
> too wide, but that can also be perspective deformation...)
>
> --
> Thomas

The chairs are modeled with the seat being 18 inches wide, and 20 inches deep,
which is pretty much what the chair I am sitting in now measures.  The lens I'm
using (camera35mm.inc) is 24mm, so moderately wide-angle, which may be the real
cause of the issue.

There are other comments about the chairs as well.  They probably need a curved
back, maybe a little higher back as well to look comfortable.  The seat probably
needs to have some body-conforming indents as well; flat wood seats are not
terribly fun to sit in for long.

-- Chris R

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"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > This is an update to the "Interior Brick Scene".  I moved the point of view back
> > a bit to see more of the room.  A bunch of the models were updated, including
> > the spilled champagne on the table.
>
> The champagne flutes still look too narrow.  The pictures of champagne flutes
> I've seen have a bowl height to diameter ratio of about 2.5.
>
> The chair backs look uncomfortably straight and low.  Leroy has a good chair at
> <https://github.com/CousinRicky/POV-lrchairs>, though I don't know if it would
> fit the atmosphere you're trying to achieve.
>
> The forks and spoon are better, but they still look somewhat awkward.  I think
> what would help are variable width along the length of the handle and some
> curvature where the handle meets the business end.
>
> The napkins are very much improved!
>
> > This was about a 2 1/2 day render on my laptop, and does not include any
> > radiosity.  I tried doing adding in radiosity earlier and the render rate
> > dropped to the under 100 PPM, which means it would take weeks to finish.  There
> > are a lot of light sources in the room, so maybe radiosity wouldn't add much to
> > the scene anyway.  Also, with the rough surfaces on the brick walls, I find that
> > I have to do a lot of tuning to get around radiosity artifacts.
>
> I don't know how you did it, but the image looks perfectly fine without
> radiosity.  If you hadn't pointed it out, I would not have known that radiosity
> wasn't used.

Well, if you come to my house, I won't serve you champagne in my flutes.  Mine
are those dimensions exactly, so you probably wouldn't like them.  ;-)

I have a few comments on the chairs, so I may revisit those as well.  I didn't
have a real-world model for them, just some basic dimensions from chairs I have
around the house, and a desire to not have them extend to high above the table
and ruin my line of sight to the table setting.

There was a model for the silverware from an online restaurant supply store, but
I didn't read any reviews to see if any restaurants actually chose that version
and liked them.  At that point I was probably looking for simpler handles,
rather than usable ones.  If I go back for another pass to fix other issues,
I'll revisit those as well.

The radiosity may not be needed because the ceiling lights are spread throughout
the scene and provide pretty good coverage.  I'm still going to play around with
a radiosity-only version and a mixed model because it sounds interesting and
would be something interesting to learn how to use better.

-- Chris R

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